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Mark_Rowlinson

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UK courses no longer in existence
« on: November 10, 2010, 02:48:29 PM »
I will shortly post photos of Mersea and Colwyn Bay, two clubs no longer in existence. But in my trawl through Golf Clubs of the Empire 1927-1931 I noted down quite a number of courses that caught my eye for being unfamiliar to me. Probably I missed quite a number - 2500 pages in two days is a lot. But here are some that may catch your eye too. Royal Cornwall, West Cheshire and lots more....? Any authoritative feedback would be greatly welcomed.


Felixstowe Eastward Ho! GC 18 holes 6000 yards Felixstowe Town station 4 minutes walk
Felixstowe GC 18 holes 5653 yards Felixstowe Town station 1¼ miles (only one club in Felixstowe today, Felixstowe Ferry)
Markeaton 5818 yards (Renamed? Nle?)
Derbyshire GC Ltd 18 holes 5652 yards (Renamed? Nle?)
Royal Cornwall Golf Club (Bodmin) (Nle?)
Blakeney and Cley GC (Nle?)
Blackpool Golf Club 18 holes 6407 yards (not clear whether North Shore, Stanley Park or another club nle)
Castle Bromwich 18 holes 6000 yards ‘reconstructed in 1914 and improved since’ (Nle?)
Annfield Plain (Co Durham) 12 holes (Nle?)
Amble (Northumberland) 9 holes ‘Seaside course. New inland course under construction’. (Is this known under a different name? Nle?)
Royal Isle of Wight (Nle?)
Chale GC (IOW) (Nle?)
Needles GC (IOW) (Nle?)
Greatstone Golf Club 18 holes (Littlestone) (Nle? Or did it become Romney Warren?)
Llandrindod Wells ‘Two 18 hole courses’ (Only one today?)
Llandrindod Wells Rock Park Golf Links 18 holes (Nle?)
Great Orme Golf Club 18 holes (Nle – difficult to see how you could get 18 holes onto this site)
Clapham Common GC 9 holes No Sunday play (Nle)
Home Park (Surbiton) 18 holes no Sunday play (Nle? Hampton Court Palace GC was known as Home Park, but Kingston is not Surbiton)
Merton Park 5939 yards (Nle or changed name?)
Molesey Hurst 18 holes (Nle disappeared 1930s – but golf recorded here in 1758!)
Neasden GC 18 holes (Nle – Markes, founder of Sandy Lodge had been a member)
New Hanger Hill GC (Ealing) 18 holes (Nle?)
Norbury GC (Streatham) 9 holes (Nle?)
Northshaw GC 9 holes (nearest station Potters Bar or Cuffley) (Nle?)
Northwick Park (Middx) 18 holes (Nle)
Oxhey GC 18 holes (Nle – folded after 2nd World War when Oxhey council estate built)
North Surrey GC 18 holes (adjoining Norbury station) (Nle?)
Pollard’s Hill GC 18 holes (Norbury station  ½ mile) (Nle?)
Ranelagh Club, Barnes 18 holes (Nle) (Roehampton Club listed separately)
Streatham GC (Tooting Bec) 9 holes no Sunday play ‘Play allowed on Tooting Bec Common under LCC regulations.’ (Nle)
Wembley GC Ltd ‘closed down 25th March 1927’
Meir GC (Longton, Staffs) 18 holes (Nle?)
Lowestoft 6177 yards (Nle?)
The Old Manchester Golf Club 9 holes. (No address given. Club founded in 1818, playing at Kersall Moor. The club still exists but is described as a club without a course).
Market Drayton 9 holes (now 18, possibly not on same site)
Nantwich GC (Nle)
Pendle Forest GC (Nelson) (Nle)
Clairemont GC (Newcastle) 18 holes (Nle?)
Padgate (Warrington) 18 holes (Nle?)
Mersey GC (Penketh) (Nle)
Penzance 18 holes 4844 yards (Nle?)
Peterborough 9 holes (Nle? Peterborough Milton founded 1937)
United Services GC, Plymouth 18 holes 5361 yards (Nle?)
Studley Royal GC (Ripon) (Nle? Ripon City GC listed separately)
St Margaret’s Bay (Kent) 5588 yards (Nle)
Shornclife Garrison Golfing Soc (Kent) (Nle)
Slaithwaite and District 9 holes (Yorkshire) (Nle)
Harton Moor (South Shields) 18 holes (Nle)
Whitworth Park (Spennymoor) 9 holes (Nle)
Spilsby & District (Lincs) 9 holes (Nle)
Cotswold GC (Stow-on-the-Wold) 9 holes (Nle)
King Arthur’s Castle GC (Tintagel) 9 holes (Nle)
Tonrefail and Gilfach Goch GC 9 holes (Glamorganshire) (Nle?)
Towyn 18 holes (Merioneth) (Nle?)
Culverdon (Tunbridge Wells) 18 holes 4671 yards (Nle?)
West Cheshire GC (Wallasey) 18 holes Station Poulton. (Nle? Wallasey GC is listed separately. Poulton Station was actually Liscard and Poulton and closed in 1960)
Whitchurch (Salop) 9 holes (Nle)
Archerfield GC Membership 30 18 holes no Sunday play, private course
Camberley Barossa GC ‘Membership 150. Ladies play at all times.’ (Nle?)
Holy Island (Northumberland) 9 holes (Nle)
Hooton GC (Cheshire) (Nle)
Crotona GC (Keighley) ‘9 holes will be increased to 18. Membership 100’ (Nle?)
Mote Mount GC (Mill Hill) 18 holes (Nle? No mention of Mill Hill GC. Could it be the same club?)
Blackpool Cleveleys Hydro GC 18 holes (Nle? Or under another title?)
Mersea Island 18 holes (Nle?)
Hurdsfield (Macclesfield) 9 holes (Nle)
Kingston Hill GC (Stafford) (Nle? Or is this Stafford Castle)
Colwyn Bay 18 holes (Nle, now a sprawling housing estate)
Old Colwyn 18 holes (now only 9)

Niall C

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2010, 02:52:12 PM »
Mark

Fantastic effort, unfortunately can't help much as I think all of these courses are on the wrong side of Hadrians Wall. Interested to read though if anyone can help.

Niall

Adrian_Stiff

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2010, 03:24:02 PM »
Mark - I have a database of existing and past courses. Not really much info to add on the past ones though. Royal Cornwall held the county championship, infact there are many instances of course from the past that held county championships which mean they must have been pretty good courses in their time. Some will be name changes and there are plenty of 9 holers now defenct. The Golfers Annual is a great source, still published today ofcourse. I am solid on them back to 1937 but only have about 5 between 1887 and 1934. I doubt there is much we would miss after WW2 but there are a lot of courses that existed between the wars. If you ever find anything on Rodway Hill GC, Mangotsfield. I would be very intrested it closed about 1946.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
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Norbert P

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2010, 03:35:23 PM »

"Well I never been to England,
But I kinda like the Beatles.
 Well, I headed out for Las Vegas,
 Only made it out to Needles."  Hoyt Axton

  Never Been To Spain   Performed by HA, 3 Dog Night and Elvis Presley


Is Archerfield now The Renaissance Club?

Felixstowe ?  Which one did Darwin write about?

  Mr. Rowlinson, you are amazing.  UK Golf history is in good hands.
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Jon Wiggett

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2010, 04:04:46 PM »
Mark,

there used to be one just outside the village where I grew up. This is Horbury, outside Wakefield in West Yorkshire. It was set on the hillside on the opposite side of the Calder river between Horbury and Netherton. Not sure what the name of the course was but I believe it was a 9 hole course and was in existence around 1920 to 1930 ish.

Jon

Mark Pearce

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2010, 04:05:51 PM »
Slag,

There are two courses at Archerfield, which is next door to Renaissance (indeed the approach to RC is through Archerfield land but they are both new.
In July 2022 I will be riding 3 stages of the Tour de France,  in the Alps, to raise money for the William Wates Memorial Trust which is dedicated to providing opportunities for under privileged young adults.  To support the Trust, please visit https://fundraising.wwmt.org/fundraisers/MarkPearce/rid

Mark Pearce

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2010, 04:08:02 PM »
Mark,

A list you circulated by e-mail included a course at Chalfont St Giles.  I thought that might be NLE, since the only course I know in CsG is a 1980s development?

In July 2022 I will be riding 3 stages of the Tour de France,  in the Alps, to raise money for the William Wates Memorial Trust which is dedicated to providing opportunities for under privileged young adults.  To support the Trust, please visit https://fundraising.wwmt.org/fundraisers/MarkPearce/rid

Adam Lawrence

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2010, 04:09:37 PM »
Mark - do you know whether the NLE Great Orme course was on the same or a similar piece of land to the proposed new course on the Orme (which seems to be a dead project now)?

Adam
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

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Jonathan Davison

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2010, 04:24:52 PM »
Mark.
I was exploring Google earth and now some areas you can take the image back to 1945. I found a course in Newcastle, which now longer exists, and from the image I can only find 12 holes. Also in Newcastle, you can see the original Mackenzie routing at City of Newcastle. I was hoping to find a 1945 aerial of the courses in the North East of England, such as Harton Moor as you mentioned but Google only covers some areas.

I also found another course near Edinburgh Airport, Ingliston which now longer exists. I am not sure of the names or histories of these courses, but Google Earth is interesting.


Jonathan Davison

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2010, 04:45:48 PM »
The original Mackenzie course at Wynyard in Durham is another to your list.

Mark Pearce

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2010, 05:20:35 PM »
Jonathan,

Whereabouts in Newcastle?

Mark,

On that e-mail list I think there was a Newcastle course we weren't familiar with?
In July 2022 I will be riding 3 stages of the Tour de France,  in the Alps, to raise money for the William Wates Memorial Trust which is dedicated to providing opportunities for under privileged young adults.  To support the Trust, please visit https://fundraising.wwmt.org/fundraisers/MarkPearce/rid

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2010, 05:45:48 PM »
Thanks Mark, very interesting.

IOW

The Needles you can still make out some features on Google earth.  It’s INCREDIBLY exposed to winds being hundreds of feet in the air. The local rule was you had to take a drop if your ball went within six club lengths of the edge.





Royal IOW is profiled as Bembridge in British Golf links.




There’s more on NLE courses on the IOW and London in  Through the Green which is now available on line.


Mersea was a Braid and quite highly thought of and was another one lost circa WW11. Mersea is an island in the mudflats of Essex, quite flat. I have more info somewhere.

Molesey Hurst.  This one went to a housing development.  I was told the turf was so fine it was lifted and re-laid on Ascot racecourse. In 2000 they put a marker down to record Garrick’s golf day, roughly where the course was later.  There’s more on this in a thread by FBD called “A Park in the Park” which is about Home Park GC and yes Surbiton is puzzling.  Home Park is North of the river in, the area beloved by cockney’s, Hampton Wick.

I’d love to know more about Blakeney and Cley. The landscape there would have made Brancaster look poplualted, It’s a long spit of land out into the sea.

I thought Archerfield was between the new Renaissance Club and the West Links?

Clapham Common is as flat as a pancake and today is always crowded with many ball games.  Approx 3 miles of the centre of London. Imagine a 9 hole course in Regents Park!  The club had to move, first to Tooting then Mitcham then becoming peripatetic, but one of the big London clubs still plays for the Clapham trophy.  Can anyone recall which?   Golf was played on Tooting Bec, another flattish open patch of clay common ground.  Darwin cited it as just the sort of land that made Heaths so attractive.  There were near riots about the toffs playing on such a populated space and it went too.

I’ll look for more tomorrow.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2010, 01:41:21 AM by Tony_Muldoon »
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Mark Pearce

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2010, 06:07:08 PM »
Jonathan,

I think I have found it, to the west of Coach Lane, south of Longbenton Post Office?  That area now has a Northumbria University Accomodation Block and some new housing.  The other side of the road is the Coach Lane Campus, with Northumbria's (very impressive) sports facility.  My guess is that the student accomodation is a '60s building but that's a guess.  I'll see if I can find out anything else.
In July 2022 I will be riding 3 stages of the Tour de France,  in the Alps, to raise money for the William Wates Memorial Trust which is dedicated to providing opportunities for under privileged young adults.  To support the Trust, please visit https://fundraising.wwmt.org/fundraisers/MarkPearce/rid

Neil_Crafter

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2010, 07:37:55 PM »
Jonathan
Could you post a link to the Google Earth location of the City of Newcastle course by Mackenzie? Thanks.
The Wynyard course you refer to was a private course Mackenzie designed for Lord Londonberry. Here is a bit of info we have on the course:

Listed in 1923 AM advertisement as "Wynyard Park (Lord Londonderry's course)". The course no longer exists. In Mackenzie's letter to Dr Willans of Seaton Carew of 15 July 1924 he writes that "I do not know of any really first class courses in either Northumberland or Durham: The little nine hole course I did for Lord Londonderry is the only one I have supervised myself but the work was carried out by untrained men and the land is not of the best type as it is heavy clay. Nevertheless, it probably compares favourably with many others in the district."

Do you have any idea where the course was and what might be there today? I am especially interested in lost Mackenzie courses. Another lost Mac 9 holer is the London Flying Club (later the London Country Club) at Hendon. Built in 1919 and gone by 1927 or thereabouts.

Jonathan Davison

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2010, 01:29:06 AM »
Mark
The course I can find is next to Benton Primary School, I am not sure if this is the Clairemont Gc Mark mentioned, I used to live on the other side of the river, so dont know to much about this area.

Neil
Wynyard Hall is a big golfing estate, huge houses, a big statley home and a Hawtree course maybe 15 year old.The was an original plan to develop 5 golf courses within the estate. A very beautiful old country estate.

I will try and draw up the Mackenzie course on the google image to show you.

Jonathan Davison

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2010, 02:14:16 AM »
Mark, here is the course in Newcastle, I can only find 12 holes.



Here is the same site now.



City of Newcastle - 1945



City of Newcastle - 2010



The other lost course close to Edinburgh Airport.


And the same view today

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2010, 03:18:49 AM »
Slag,

There are two courses at Archerfield, which is next door to Renaissance (indeed the approach to RC is through Archerfield land but they are both new.

The original Archerfield course was described by Tom Simpson as one of the four great courses in East Lothian, along with Muirfield, North Berwick and Gullane.

I'm not sure the exact land it played on but I presume it was within the current Archerfield Estate.

Jon Wiggett

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2010, 03:45:11 AM »
Jonathan,

I can find 14 greens on that photo from newcastle so just 4 greens missing if it was infact a 18 holer,

Jon

Mark Pearce

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2010, 06:06:14 AM »
Jonathan,

That's the one I found, thanks for posting.  I guess it could be Clairemont.  However, something occurred to me about that name last night.  The original clubhouse for City of Newcastle GC, which became to Newcastle United GC club house when City moved to Gosforth (and NU have since moved their club house and, I suspect course) was an old windmill (still there) on Claremont Road.  I wonder if Clairemont was a reference to Newcastle United, or if there was a seperate club that shared that facility?
In July 2022 I will be riding 3 stages of the Tour de France,  in the Alps, to raise money for the William Wates Memorial Trust which is dedicated to providing opportunities for under privileged young adults.  To support the Trust, please visit https://fundraising.wwmt.org/fundraisers/MarkPearce/rid

Ben Stephens

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2010, 07:51:12 AM »
Mark,

There is Northampton Golf Club's Willie Park jr's original layout in the centre of Northamptonon Spinney Hill. The club left to move to a new site in Harlestone in the late 80's/early 90's. About 7 or 8 holes were very much like links land according to a friend of mine who used to be a member there. The club now plays at Harlestone on a Donald Steel designed layout.

Downfield (Dundee) original 18 holes by Braid - only about 4/5 holes remain thanks to the 1945 images on Google Earth.

Luffenham Heath lost 3 holes to World War 2.

Uppingham used to have a nine hole course - that was planned to be an 18 hole course and was under construction with view of the EGU taking over but the EGU ended up buying Woodhall Spa which meant the developer folded. The planning documents are still at the council planning department.

I have had 2 par 3 holes on the par 3 course at Greetham Valley which I designed now replaced by chalets!

Cheers
Ben
 
« Last Edit: November 11, 2010, 07:54:25 AM by Ben Stephens »

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2010, 09:34:20 AM »
Thanks for your input. Of course I'll have missed some - it was whatever lifted off the page. I did look for Neil's Hendon course but it wasn't listed. When I've finished scanning the photocopies of course pictures I'll happily pass them on to anyone to whom they may be of interest or use.

Richard Muldoon

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2010, 09:42:40 AM »
Mark,
one to add to your list would be Newbury & Crookham Golf Course. I would have to check but I think the original course was actually on Greenham Common and called just Crookham Golf Club.
As far as Home Park is concerned I think it would be too much of a coincidence not to be the current Hampton Court Palace Course. Surbiton / Thames Ditton is literally the other side of the river. You could probably hit a well struck driver onto the fairway of the 3rd hole from across the river. What do you think Tony?
Incidently Surbiton Golf Club is not in Surbiton but Chessington / Claygate.

Richard

James Boon

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2010, 09:46:22 AM »
Mark,

I've some information at home regarding Derbyshire GC as it was on a site that was then developed in the 30s for housing, and my house forms part of that development. I'll try and post something when I get home tonight. Assuming Markeaton relates to Markeaton Park, also in Derby, then its not one I've heard of but I'll see what I can find.

As Tony says, I would love to see what the course at Blakeney and Cley was like?

Cheers,

James
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"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Michael Wharton-Palmer

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2010, 09:54:34 AM »
I remember playing in the British Boys at Barrasie and someone telling me there used to be another course that was adjacent to it...anybody know of this?

Mark Pearce

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2010, 09:59:40 AM »
Mark,

You may not have missed them.  I guess it's more than possible that the original book was incomplete or that some of the NLEs weren't in existence (already NLE or YTE) when the book was produced?
In July 2022 I will be riding 3 stages of the Tour de France,  in the Alps, to raise money for the William Wates Memorial Trust which is dedicated to providing opportunities for under privileged young adults.  To support the Trust, please visit https://fundraising.wwmt.org/fundraisers/MarkPearce/rid

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