[Sven Nilsen]

Woodbridge G&CC


June 7, 1924 Stockton Daily Evening Record -

[Sven Nilsen]

Cherry Hills (June 4, 1938 edition of the Chester Times).

Probably the same set of plans that was included in Joe's post, just from a different paper.



June 8, 1938 Charlotte News -

[Sven Nilsen]

Andover CC f/k/a Shawsheen CC

[Sven Nilsen]

Rangely Lake House - 1922

[Bret Lawrence]

Forest Park Municipal Golf Course:  Proposed changes to the golf course in 1920.
St. Louis Post-Dispatch., February 22, 1920 (Sent from Nigel Islam)

[Bret Lawrence]

Rock Island Arsenal Golf Club, 1906.
Rock Island Argus., August 25, 1906

[Bret Lawrence]

Winter Park 9:

[Bret Lawrence]

Found this in my email today, from Bret Lawrence:

Willie Park's Design for New Haven Country Club - 1921 (Below):

[Tim Martin]

Bret-Do you know when # 14 at NHCC was changed from a par four to a par five? It was the only weak hole on the golf course before they ultimately changed it back which is only in the last ten years. North of 450 yards in 1921 was a stout par four.

[Bret Lawrence]

Tim:


I don't know exactly when New Haven Country Club changed their 14th hole from a Par 4 to a Par 5.


Here is an excerpt from the club's Fifty-Year Anniversary book including a quote from Willie Park .  This was written in 1948, which might give some insight as to how Willie Park would have felt about the change.





Bret

[Tim Martin]

Tim:


I don't know exactly when New Haven Country Club changed their 14th hole from a Par 4 to a Par 5.


Here is an excerpt from the club's Fifty-Year Anniversary book including a quote from Willie Park .  This was written in 1948, which might give some insight as to how Willie Park would have felt about the change.





Bret

Bret-When you look at NHCC’s website their course tour has a written description that makes reference to going for the green in two with a good drive on 14. Considering the only hazards for the length of the hole come in the form of sand I wonder if the description isn’t a holdover from when the hole played as a par 5? As far as I can hit it I can’t reach the green in two but if I have a look there is nothing to keep me from whacking away. It was a crazy hard par 4 in the 1920’s and one hundred years later remains a hard hole.

[Sven Nilsen]

Los Angeles CC - July 4, 1911 Los Angeles Times -

[Jim_Kennedy]

There are a couple of earlier views of this layout on the list. 
This one touts -  "The deft hand of Walter J. Travis, four times champion at Oakland, are seen at frequent points on the links. Travis Is the sponsor for many of the bunkers and traps, and has been a factor In making the course as exacting as it is."
 

[MCirba]

I love this thread.

[Greg Smith]

Jim --


This particular map of Oakland (which shows the pre-Raynor version) is confusing me.  It shows several holes that would be very long for that day (510y, 541y, 585y).  But I am looking right at Dan Wexler's map of the Raynor re-work that is featured in Missing Links.  That golf course is squished and crunched in there -- the longest holes SR could contrive were of the 440-yard range.  How is this possible?  I always thought SR was a real master at routing.  Did Oakland lose or sell a chunk of land somewhere that constricted Raynor's design? Or is the map just way off the mark?  Below is my routing comparison -- wish I had the digital skills to do some sort of overlay.




Old 1st (220y) - starting at Raynor's 10th tee, to a green site in the middle of the DZ.
Old 2nd (163y) - tee near site of Raynor's 10th green, playing to a spot in the DZ of Raynor's 11th.  Okay.  Fine so far.
Old 3rd (510y) - corresponding to the corridor of Raynor's 12th, which was 425 yards (and crunched in there pretty tightly on the Wexler map).  That hole just wouldn't fit.
Old 4th (319y) - covering the corridor where Raynor built his Redan 13th, and continuing on to finish at the site of Raynor's 4th green.  Okay then.
Old 5th (311y) - corresponding to Raynor's 5th of 300 yards. 
Old 6th (541y) - this map shows the tee behind and to the left of the old 5th green (i.e. no walkback).  It also shows the old 6th green in proper relationship to the 7th tee.  But the Wexler map shows Raynor's (3-shot) 6th of 445 yards as shoehorned in there, certainly no room to stretch out another 100 yards.
Old 7th (331y) - corresponding roughly to Raynor's 7th (385y), but perhaps with the green site on the opposite side of the ravine from Raynor's hole which dog-legged left over the hazard.  The map of the old version does not show the ravine, so I'm guessing here.
Old 8th (140y) - corresponding to Raynor's 8th of 155 yards.
Old 9th (368y) - corresponding to Raynor's 9th of 408 yards.
Old 10th (344y) - on land mostly unused by Raynor, with a green site out in the field to the right of Raynor's 1st fairway.
Old 11th (385y) - following the second half of Raynor's 1st, but continuing on to finish at the site of Raynor's 2nd green.
Old 12th (464y) - corresponding to Raynor's 3rd of 435 yards.  I can buy that.
Old 13th (263y) - Playing across two Raynor hole corridors to finish near the site of his 14th tee.
Old 14th (585y) - Used the corridor of Raynor's Biarritz 14th, and continued on through the corridor of Raynor's 15th.  Okay, but on the Wexler map that 15th green was much further down, right up next to the 2nd green (old 11th).  This map shows the green site a good distance shy of that point.  The configuration just can't square with a hole of 585 yards.
Old 15th (325y) - Corresponding to Raynor's 16th of 350 yards.
Old 16th (413y) - Corresponding to Raynor's 17th of 415 yards.
Old 17th (316y) and 18th (218y) - both fit in the hole corridor of Raynor's 18th (445y).


***


The perceived weakness of Raynor's (otherwise excellent) Oakland course was lack of length. Yet it seems the old version had a number of stout holes.  Unless there was some loss of land I can't explain what's going on with this map.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Here's a '24 aerial, big chunk of land missing, new location for the clubhouse.


 

[Jim_Kennedy]

Greg,


There was a thread on Oakland that had lot of info, from Bendelow and Travis, to Raynor and Gerard, etc., but I can't seem to find it.
 

[Bret Lawrence]

Jim,


Is this the thread you're referring to?


https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,54950.msg1561431/topicseen.html#msg1561431.


Alic Gerard was the pro at Mountain Lake for many years followed by his son Alic "Buddy" Gerard Jr.  Sometimes spelled Alick Alec, or Aleck.


Bret

[Jim_Kennedy]

Could be Bret, although I'm thinking it was longer than one page. Thanks for posting that one.


This course was the product of  "George Davies, well known links architect and engineer".

[Jim_Kennedy]

Laid out by Ben Knight, the club's professional.

[Jim_Kennedy]

First newspaper version of Raynor's Lookout Mountain course that I've seen.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Anchors Aweigh

[Jim_Kennedy]

[Jim_Kennedy]

[Jim_Kennedy]

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