Pinehurst #3 Course

[Chris Buie]

Hello there GCA enthusiaists, my fellow Southern Pines resident Ran has asked me to share a few photos and solicit questions regarding the underrated Pinehurst #3 Course. It was originally designed in 1910 by you-know-who and despite some alterations has retained quite a bit of its charm and design. 
With its shorter length and wide fairways #3 is obviously intended to be a fun course rather than an intense challenge like #2.  However, it is not to be taken too lightly.  The green complexes are actually first rate.  Even though your approach shots will be with the shorter irons you will need to be quite accurate with them.  Although most of the holes give you a good place to miss it, many of the holes feature those sinister roll off collection areas very similar in challenge and design as the ones you face on #2.

The approach to the 15th (originally the 17th).


#3 Course has enough hilly terrain to keep things interesting - 18th approach.


The classical 7th hole hasn't really changed since the Twenties.


An example of the collection areas on #3. 


You have to be very precise with your approach to the 11th.


View from the first green - looking over the 1st fairway of #5 Course


Well, I suppose that gives you an idea of the flavor of #3.  Yes, houses and condos have grown like kudzu all up and down the fairways.  However, if you are able to overlook that I think you will be glad you played it.  Ben Crenshaw was.  Here is what he said about #3:
"I just don't think people understand how good those holes are. They're filled with interest. "

[PCCraig]

I've never actually played the #3 course while in Pinehurst, but it looks like a very fun course.

Do you work for the resort? Who is the average customer that plays the course? (Kids/Women/Families/Buddy Golf Trips?)

IMO, it doesn't look like the course needs a ton of work to be fun and interesting, but perhaps to gain more appriciation and play it needs to stand out a bit from the other 7 courses on the property. What I think is fun are very playable but fun golf courses that can be played quickly, for the better golfer either as an early "warm up" round or a late night round with buddies or for a golfer that maybe isn't good enough to play some of the harder courses at the resort. So what I think would be cool is to shave back all rough that is possible and to open up the greens as well to give players more options and to be more interesting around the greens, respectivley.

A couple of my thoughts (I'll borrow your pictures);


The approach to the 15th (originally the 17th).


This is a great looking hole, but I would shave back the rough on the left by the bunker and on the mounds to bring it into play more

#3 Course has enough hilly terrain to keep things interesting - 18th approach.


I like the high rough to the right of the right bunker. I think it would be cool to open the fariways up as much as possible but leave some of the right gnarly stuff around the bunkers and in the far off rough spots to give texture.

The classical 7th hole hasn't really changed since the Twenties.


Was the cartpath there in the 1920's?  I would get rid of that or move it.

An example of the collection areas on #3. 


It's all rough...is it much more expensive and time consuming to shave it down?

You have to be very precise with your approach to the 11th.


That's a cool looking green.

[Steve Kline]

One of the biggest problems is the conditioning of the course. The green surrounds have way too much rough around them. If more areas were shaved down like #2 the course would be much more fun to play.

I will note that the course is surprisingly resistent to scoring. I never shoot as good of score on it as I think I should.

My dad lives just across the street from the 7th green.

[Chris Buie]

Pat, no I don't work at the resort.  My brother was a pro there for many years though.  I usually play at the resort once or twice a week.
Your question about who plays it is a good one.  Mainly it is the senior couple members who play it.  You do see guys on vacation occasionally but they almost always want to play #2, #4 or #8.  For you I would recommend playing as late in the day as possible.  That would most definitely be your quickest time.  A lot of the members are early risers and they would be teeing off from early morning until about 1:30-2:00.  I, um, would not recommend you play in that time block.
The design ideas from you guys are good ones.  I particularly would love to see the areas around the greens shaved.  Some native wire grass would be good as well.
Another aspect of #3 that I really like are the use of mounds in the fairways instead of bunkers.  I'll show the view from the tee, then a closer view since the photos from the tees don't really get across the contours.

12th Hole


12th Hole closer


17th Hole


17th Hole closer

[PCCraig]

Chris-

Thanks for the additional pictures. I really like the look of the 12th hole

I'll actually be in the area next week/weekend. If there's time (potentially doubtful, but nonetheless) I may try to stop by and check it out.

[John Moore II]

#3 is a good course, short, but fun. Pretty interesting. They likely have the rough around the greens because of the play the course gets. The senior couples who play would have no fun if the banks were shaved. Not to mention, much of the course is still common bermuda, making it tough to get into decent condition if played short. The course plays very good though. The course may be more fun to play for some of us with no rough around the green, but for the 70 year old Mrs. Havercamp, it would be difficult, especially after the ball rolled off 30 yards to the side. The fronts are open, you can run the ball onto the surface on most cases.

And whats with people thinking cart paths are so, so horrible? Its not that bad. And how exactly would you move it to make it less visible??

[PCCraig]

From the looks of this, is this safe to say this is a "hidden" gem of the Pinehurst area? Despite it being part of the resort? Is it true that it is only 5700 yards (according to the website). How much does it cost to play?

[John Moore II]

From the looks of this, is this safe to say this is a "hidden" gem of the Pinehurst area? Despite it being part of the resort? Is it true that it is only 5700 yards (according to the website). How much does it cost to play?

Not much of a hidden gem, its a fair course, #1 is far better. Yes, its 5700, if stretched all the way back. And it costs $100 to play this time of year. But, its far from a hidden gem, or gem at all really. Its the bottom of quality at the resort, IMHO.

Pat-If you're in the area, play Southern Pines, its far better, and cheaper.

[Craig Disher]

Not much of a hidden gem, its a fair course, #1 is far better. Yes, its 5700, if stretched all the way back. And it costs $100 to play this time of year. But, its far from a hidden gem, or gem at all really. Its the bottom of quality at the resort, IMHO.

Pat-If you're in the area, play Southern Pines, its far better, and cheaper.

SP used to be A LOT cheaper; it still is although less so. It is also a much better course as John says. #3 has some terrific holes but the course suffers from overwatering and heavy cart traffic. And some of the non-Ross holes are not very good at all, victims of routing limitations.

I think I posted this information a long time ago but I can't find it - I'll post it again.

The current #3 is only half of Ross's original design. A few other original #3 holes are on the current #5 and the rest are gone, sitting under homes and condos. Basically, most of Ross's front nine holes are on course #5 and most of his back 9 holes are on #3. The remaining holes on the current #3 (9-13 and 16-17) were built in the 1960s.

These are the #3 holes and what they've become (Original #3 hole/Current hole)
1/NLE
2/#2 of Course #5
3/#3 of Course #5
4/#4 of Course #5
5/NLE
6/#15 of Course #5
7/NLE
8/#17 of Course #5
9/#18 of Course #5
10/#3 of Original #3
11/#4      "
12/#5      "
13/#6      "
14/#7      "
15/#8      "
16/#14    "
17/#15    "
18/#18    "

[Carl Johnson]

My wife and I played No. 3 on Thanksgiving Day three or four years ago, starting very late.  In fact, it got too dark to continue and we did not finish all 18 -- I don't recall how far we did get.  In any case, the resort knew we were out there somewhere and sent out someone in a cart to find us and lead us back in.  Very thoughtful.  My wife was, and is, a beginner, so the course suited us fine.  My only complaint was that adjacent houses and condos  really intruded on the experience.  However, they don't show up the the photos posted above, so maybe they aren't quite as bad as they seemed at the time.

[John Moore II]

Nevermind, I suffer from reading comprehension problems. I wish I could just delete. Sorry to take up space.

[Chris Buie]

Mr. Disher is correct.  Several of the original #3 course holes are on #5 course.  It is my understanding that Richard Tufts designed the remaining holes on #3 and Ellis Maples did the same on #5.   
You can see the 1922 map of #3 and the other Pinehurst courses here:

http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=%2Fncmaps&CISOPTR=1004&DMSCALE=100.00000&DMWIDTH=750&DMHEIGHT=750&DMMODE=viewer&DMFULL=0&DMOLDSCALE=3.09406&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=&DMTHUMB=1&REC=1&DMROTATE=0&x=57&y=92

(You can zoom in on this map)
You will probably find the layout of #2 interesting to look at as well.

[Evan_Green]

When I played this course, I could only think how much more fun it would have been with hickories and I wondered to myself why the resort didnt have some hickory sets available for rent...would be pure profit on their part and make it a more unique experience...even with modern clubs I enjoyed it still

[John Moore II]

When I played this course, I could only think how much more fun it would have been with hickories and I wondered to myself why the resort didnt have some hickory sets available for rent...would be pure profit on their part and make it a more unique experience...even with modern clubs I enjoyed it still

You do know Mid Pines has hickories to rent right? Just wondering. I doubt they'd let you take them off site, but then again, if you authorize a big charge on the credit card to buy them in full if not brought back, it would not matter. Either way, Mid Pines rents out hickory clubs to people.

Pinehurst Resort makes money hand over fist anyway. They don't need another couple of bucks from hickory clubs. They wouldn't make that much money off it anyway, as a percentage of golfers, how many would rent hickory clubs? Maybe 1%?

[Andrew Buck]

I was looking on the Pinehurst website considering a return trip this year and noticed in addition to the cradle and improved thistle dhu it remarks that #3 has had work done.  The pictures on the website look good, but it's unclear if they simply redesigned one or 2 holes to make room for The Cradle or if they actually did restoration work throughout.

Does anyone have more information on the project?

[Peter Gannon]

Andrew,


Kyle Franz of Mid Pines/Pine Needles restoration, not to mention part of the No. 2 crew did the work on No 3.   My understanding it was more of a touch up vs a full restoration.


I cannot wait to return.  I've been several times, maybe 6, and am excited to experience The Cradle.  And next year, we'll have No 4's redo for a further excuse.


Doff of the cap, Pinehurst!


(Now, if they could restore the overnight train service from NYC to Southern Pines, complete with cigar/bar car!  What a weekend that would be!)
Peter

[Ronald Montesano]

Chris and Rannulph


I concur. I'm putting together a page of images from winter 2014, on the #3 course. First 5 holes (tee shot and approach) are posted. I'd like to see more recent images, to compare what was there 4 years ago, contrasted with what the ground is now.


https://wp.me/p20nYT-7cL is the shortened URL.

Password is GCA2018   Use capital letters for GCA

[Jay Mickle]

  It seems that the redo of number three was motivated by both a desire to create a more uniform “Sandhills“ look at the resort and to free up land for The Cradle. In order to create the space for The Cradle the first holes on courses three and five were eliminated.  The second hole on number three was flipped to provide the first hole on number five. That left Number three with only 16 holes.
To get to 18 holes both the fifth hole and the 10th hole we shortened and room was made for two short par threes.  As a statement that this was not a renovation or restoration, the green complexes on the four new holes are totally out of character with the rest of the course. I don’t see this necessarily as the negative as the four new holes are immensely interesting in their own right. After all this was not an original Ross course but rather a mix of both and Ellis Maples and Donald Ross.
More in character with the original Ross design was the reintroduction of a cross bunker on number 15. This along with the re-bunkering and introduction of the sandy waste areas gives the course the character that it had been previously lacking. The course has been shortened to a bit over 5100 yards, but what it lacks in lengths it makes up for in fun. It has a great variety of wonderful greens and can easily be walked in under 3 hours (pace of play permitting).

[Andy Ryall]

A group of eight did a VRBO in September on a house that backed up to 16 tee on #3.  We played our afternoon round there following the AM at Mid Pines.    It appeared that there was still some work in progress particularly on certain fairway bunkers on the back 9.  While it is forgiving and shorter off the tee, the approaches are tricky given the complexes, many of which are elevated. 


The new 17th had the most interesting green complex on the course with a false front and several sloping edges that fed into collection areas.


Also with the addition of the Cradle, all holes reside across the street from the resort.


I would highly recommend taking a spin, especially as a second eighteen for the day.

[Ronald Montesano]

Holes posted through 12th green at above link. Can't believe the old 1st hole, with that tree in the middle of the fairway, is gone. Did they save the tree?

[Jay Mickle]

Holes posted through 12th green at above link. Can't believe the old 1st hole, with that tree in the middle of the fairway, is gone. Did they save the tree?

The tree sits in the middle of The Cradle.

[Blake Conant]

Andrew,


Kyle Franz of Mid Pines/Pine Needles restoration, not to mention part of the No. 2 crew did the work on No 3.   My understanding it was more of a touch up vs a full restoration.


I cannot wait to return.  I've been several times, maybe 6, and am excited to experience The Cradle.  And next year, we'll have No 4's redo for a further excuse.


Doff of the cap, Pinehurst!


(Now, if they could restore the overnight train service from NYC to Southern Pines, complete with cigar/bar car!  What a weekend that would be!)
Peter

Kyle did quite bit of work restoring bunkers and natural areas on several of the holes on #3, but the new holes [1st hole on course no. 5, holes 3, 4, 9, and 10 on course no. 3] were done by Kye Goalby.

[Ronald Montesano]

Holes posted through 12th green at above link. Can't believe the old 1st hole, with that tree in the middle of the fairway, is gone. Did they save the tree?

The tree sits in the middle of The Cradle.

Glad they saved it. did they get rid of that one on the 3rd at MidPines yet? 


ON A MORE DISTURBING NOTE, all 19 holes have been uploaded to my post on BuffaloGolfer (see above for link and password.) Yup, 19 holes. No idea how that is possible, but there they are. If anyone in the know can shed light on the extra hole, I will be grateful...RM