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Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Dear GCA,

Last week I went on a flying visit to ‘P and K’ (local name) without my camera! to investigate Harry Colt’s work there. I had never played the course before luckily I played with a member which really helped my way round the course.

The course is divided into 2 nines by a minor road. The front nine is the less dramatic of the two nines but it had the more dramatic greens and bunkering. Overall the course was so much fun to play and it was a lot better than I had expected.

I hope to visit the course again in the near future armed with a camera. I recently bought a book on Harry Colt’s golf courses and looked up at P and K. The book says that the front nine is all Colt’s work and the current back nine is by Philip Mackenzie Ross (of Turnberry fame). This helped to clarify everything that I had suspected.

The back nine loops around massive dunes with 5 or 6 practice holes/holes used in the winter. I felt this was a waste of pure golfing land!! There was one of the best positioned skyline green I have seen on a golf course and it was a practice hole!

I have drawn a layout sketch of the proposed Dunes course if they had utilised the land better. The Colt front nine would be preserved as a protected 9 hole golf course like a 'Picasso painting' on land.



Also I have utilised all the greens on the practice course as well as relocating the 18th green further away from the road and closer to the clubhouse. 13 existing greens are used and 5 new greens built to reduce construction costs for the club.

Here is a description of the Dunes course:

Hole 1 –  430 yards par 4 - existing hole 10 with new tees further left  to accommodate new 18th green.

Hole 2 –  165 yards par 3 - existing practice par 3 hole by existing 10th green.

Hole 3 –  495 yards par 5 - existing practice hole to skyline green (existing 11th hole removed)

Hole 4 – 405 yards par 4 – new hole built inside existing hole 12/13/14 loop.

Hole 5 – 455 yards par 4 - new hole built inside existing hole 12/13/14 loop using the current 11th green but coming in from the opposite direction.

Hole 6 – 201 yards par 3 – existing 12th hole.

Hole 7 – 390 yards par 4 – existing 13th hole. Tees moved to left side of existing Hole 12 green.

Hole 8 – 412 yards par 4 – existing 14th hole.

Hole 9 – 540 yards par 5 – existing practice par 5 hole with downhill tee shot and undulating fairway.

Outward nine – 3493 yards par 36

Hole 10 – 185 yards par 3 – existing practice par 3 hole by existing 17th fairway.

Hole 11 – 320 yards par 4 – existing practice par 4 hole.

Hole 12 – 375 yards par 4 – new hole in extreme rolling dunes.

Hole 13 – 219 yards par 3 – existing 15th hole.

Hole 14 – 585 yards par 5 – new hole parallel to existing 15th hole.

Hole 15 – 470 yards par 4 – new hole alongside hole 13 with green located close to large dune.

Hole 16 – 520 yards par 5 – existing 16th hole converted into a dogleg left par 5.

Hole 17 – 440 yards par 4 – existing  17th hole.

Hole 18 – 430 yards par 4 – new dunes built on left side of fairway to prevent wayward shots veering onto the road. New green is constructed closer to clubhouse. The current 18th hole has been ruined by the club moving the fairway further right and adding 3 new out of character bunkers and the alignment of the green does not flow with the realigned fairway.

Inward nine – 3544 yards par 36

Total – 7037 yards par 72 (SSS – 75 or 76)

This would be a wonderful looking course and has a massive potential eclipsing its more well known next door neighbour – Royal Porthcawl as the best course in Wales. Also I believe this is a better layout than I had previously proposed P and K as a 2020 Open venue.



Thread link - http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,38915.msg813249/

Look forward to your comments.

Cheers

Ben
« Last Edit: June 05, 2009, 02:56:34 PM by Ben Stephens »

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pyle and Kenfig visit and proposed Dunes course (fictional)
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2009, 01:43:20 AM »
Ingenious although ithas to be said it's a glorious folly you have undertaken to design these courses that will never be built. (You realise of course that you are breaking one of GCAs most hallowed rules - that courses should be desined after walking and walking the land and not on a topo map and computer.) I've enjoyed every one of them.

Ive yet to get to P&K but I think I've seen the land you talk about from the M4.  There was also an episode of Coast that fetured it. However it's been said before on here that they will never be allowed to build more in that dune system.

I'm curious as to which holes get taken out in winter when the others come into play?
Let's make GCA grate again!

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pyle and Kenfig visit and proposed Dunes course (fictional)
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2009, 05:32:19 AM »
Tony,

Here is an image of the current back nine. In the winter the holes that are the furthest out are taken out of play as it gets too wet and cold. The 5 inner holes become holes 11 to 15 replacing the normal holes 11 to 15.



Winter Hole 12 green blew me away and I thought the club was mad not using this spectactular green all year round.

I understand that a design of a golf course evolves over time - I did have a number of different layout drawings when I designed Rutland Water Golf Course but the most critical element of the design was walking around and finding the best locations for tee, green and fairway etc.
The difference between the initial layout and the final layout is totally unrecogisable.

This layout for P and K is to find out what can be fitted in on the current site and then the next stage, in theory, would be finding out best location for all important elements - tees, fairway and greens etc.

Cheers

Ben


James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pyle and Kenfig visit and proposed Dunes course (fictional)
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2009, 06:00:44 AM »
Well Ben, you've done it again! Nice one!

Though I agree with Tony that "walking the course" should be one of the golden rules of actual GCA, I love the idea of the sketched layout. Its like the doodles that I'm sure many of us scribble in the margins of note books or on scraps of paper when it takes our fancy, and Google Earth etc make it more fun by showing us a little more whats out there. Though I have on several occasions been suprised at level changes on a course that I've had a sneek preview of on Google Earth!

Not played P&K so can't comment much, however, if the winter 12th is such a great green, it slooks from your annotated aerial photo that it wouldn't be too tricky to us that one in the summer?

Cheers,

James

ps Must arrange for another game soon. Next few Mondays are booked up but perhaps Luffenham or a trip up to Alwoodley?
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pyle and Kenfig visit and proposed Dunes course (fictional)
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2009, 05:32:30 PM »
James et al

As you know very well in our trade - a sketch is the starting point to find out what could fit on the chosen site - I always like to play around with layouts and then walk around the site and then go back and improve the sketch layout.

As for P and K winter 12th green according to the member I played with is the most severe green on the whole course - from a distance it is like a MacKenzie style green that really gets your attention it definitely has the wow factor - next time I will definitely have a closer look and take some images.

Maybe we could whip in B + B and P + K on a 2 day short tour! Sun then Mon who knows.

Ben




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