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Tommy_Naccarato

Re:A Hierarchy of Values Not Much of a Thread
« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2007, 03:00:09 AM »
Tom,
Then what was the Minimalist Manifesto, which I still have a copy of, tucked away in my Confidential Guide?

JMorgan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:A Hierarchy of Values Not Much of a Thread
« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2007, 05:44:16 AM »
Peter,
After being driven from my own bed by kidney kicks and elbows to my ribs by a two year-old who couldn't sleep, I thought it apropos to try to add my own thoughts to your thread here.   ;D  The problem is, I don't know what to say other than it's never so black and white, and I personally would substitute "preferences" for values, because what one chooses vs. what one values are not always in synch (or are they?) which I guess is why religion is so popular.  (Another  ;D.)    That said, my point sort of goes along with what Jeff said about Tom Fazio, for instance.  At least that's how I look at it, free-form and semi-lucid in the pre-dawn dark.


I need another cup of coffee before I finish the thought...

JMorgan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:A Hierarchy of Values Not Much of a Thread
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2007, 05:54:23 AM »
In the context of gca, I suppose it's a rather personal affair, as I see Tom has mentioned above.   I suppose certain architects took on work to make money, and/or found an angle that got them more business, and what followed from those day-to-day decisions became an oeuvre.  Is the angle equal to the value?  Or is it a necessary evil in light of a preference?  Does it mean we should dismiss someone's work or give the person's work more of a chance?    (I tend to err towards the latter, even if I have my own preferences.)  What personal sacrifices have been made by someone out of necessity that may have otherwise changed the way people think about X or Y?  

More coffee...

TEPaul

Re:A Hierarchy of Values Not Much of a Thread
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2007, 10:21:08 PM »
"...and you won't find this many big words in a whole months worth of posts at any other forum.......let alone the ability of fellow posters to recognize the redundancy of the term "singularly unique"......  ;D

Love ya, Mike......   ;)

And now I'm really going to insult you, Hancock, by telling you that after that remark of yours above there is no question at all but that you are a true intellectual.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re:A Hierarchy of Values Not Much of a Thread
« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2007, 01:27:26 AM »
Tommy N:

The minimalist manifesto can also be found at www.renaissancegolf.com , although you have to dig a little bit to find it.

However, that essay outlines a philosophy of golf course architecture; it's not a treatise on my own personal value system, though there is certainly some overlap.

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:A Hierarchy of Values Not Much of a Thread
« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2007, 10:57:39 AM »
Tom,
Now see here we are really getting into something!

The Minimalist Manifesto was/is/has been a great guide which to not only play golf by, design courses by, to even live by!

One of the most important--PLAY IT AS IT LIES!

How much more honest and forthright can a person get with themselves when they do exactly that? Playing it as it lies allows a golfer to realize who he is and how he handles things in life and golf.

There are more. Many more. I believe in each and everyone of them too, that is as much as a persons physical, mental and spiritual capbilities can take them.

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:A Hierarchy of Values Not Much of a Thread
« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2007, 11:01:30 AM »
Tom,
I looked and just found it. But isn't that an newer, somewhat more edited down version of the MM?

The one I had was like a 14 or 15 page diatribe--mind you and important one. VERY IMPORTANT.


Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re:A Hierarchy of Values Not Much of a Thread
« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2007, 11:09:57 AM »
Tommy:

If you've got a 14-page version you will have to send it to me, because I don't remember that.  I remember the version which I brought to the GCSAA show in the early 1990's, which fit on both sides of a page.  

My mom was an editor, so while I love to write long sentences, I generally do a good job of editing my thoughts down to the essentials.


Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:A Hierarchy of Values Not Much of a Thread
« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2007, 11:19:15 AM »
If you've got a 14-page version you will have to send it to me, because I don't remember that.  I remember the version which I brought to the GCSAA show in the early 1990's, which fit on both sides of a page.  

My mom was an editor, so while I love to write long sentences, I generally do a good job of editing my thoughts down to the essentials.

A 14-page "Minimalist Manifesto": Now, that's comedy!
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:A Hierarchy of Values Not Much of a Thread
« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2007, 11:47:44 AM »
Tom,
From memory, (I'm 1300 miles from home right now and I can't look) but didn't you have a bunch of stuff in there about Tiger Woods, etc.

All of it was downloaded from one of your original websites and zI had printed it out.

Dan Kelly,
14 pages may have been someone of an exaggeration; I may have even been hypothesizing, but this thing went pages and pages. He may have even had something in there about blowing something up, but with Tom Doak--that's usually a good thing to blow-up!

He's no Ted Kacynski.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:A Hierarchy of Values Not Much of a Thread
« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2007, 12:04:28 PM »
Michael, Ayn Rand's form of individualism is too close to selfish interests at the cost of the community for me.

I think you either haven't read Ayn, or you misunderstood her.

 :)

As for the original point, I don't think anyone can objectively evaluate others' hierarchies, nor would he likely honestly reveal his own.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re:A Hierarchy of Values Not Much of a Thread
« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2007, 01:04:29 PM »
Tommy:

Now I think I know what you remember -- but that was a series of short essays including the Manifesto, not an extended version.  All of that stuff is still on the essays part of my web site.  I'm amazed at the degree to which some people read down that far and find it ... when I was at Cypress Point a few months back the green chairman was quoting from some of those essays!

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:A Hierarchy of Values Not Much of a Thread
« Reply #37 on: October 05, 2007, 04:25:38 AM »
Found a lot of it while looking for it late last night. Some great stuff there that is an interesting read years later!

And here Peter didn't think a Heirarchy of Values was much of a thread! ;)


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