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Tony_Muldoon

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Hainault Forrest 1. Taylor
« on: November 06, 2006, 06:29:55 PM »
As a compliment to the thread on JH Taylor I thought it would be interesting to show some examples from an important course he created.

Hainault Forrest is historically important because it was the first specially created municipal course in England.  Braid Hills and others had previously existed in Scotland, and Bournemouth and Eastbourne had adopted private courses, however they charged a high price and thought of the courses as means of attracting holidaymakers.  In 1908 the London County council decided to encourage golf for all and the first non private course in England was laid out, east of the City in Hainault Forrest.

The history is a little convoluted and seemingly of little interest to the people who now run this as a private pay and play on a long lease from a government body.  Cornish and Whitten are confusing, seemingly crediting the first course to Taylor and Hawtree and additional 9 to Taylor.  There are numerous old tee’s to suggest that the routing around the clubhouse (close to the practice ground on the map) has been changed but for the purposes of this thread we’ll assume that the Upper course shown below is either Taylor or Taylor and Hawtree.  However at the time when the second course was created it is generally agreed that changes to the original holes (27?) were made by Braid or Strut.



The course, now known as the upper, starts with a functional uphill par 4. And then a slightly downhill par 3

Next comes an uphill Par 4 which is driveable in summer.  What stands out as odd to me are the two bunkers approximately 100 yards off the tee.  Surely they could only distract or threaten the novice – the very person the course was set up to encourage. (Adding to the confusion of who did what - You can see similar bunkers on a couple of holes that have nothing to do with Taylor)


It’s at the 4th where the course springs to life.  The green is in front of the two large trees and the tee is at the top of the hill with the fairway falling sharply away to the right.  Any slice will turn 90 degrees after landing and leave a blind shot of 180 yards or more across the corner of that hill.


The ground continues to fall and with the green running away from the player it’s essential to bounce the ball down the hill if there’s any firmness in the green.  I could play shots to this green all day long.





Another uphill filler. Is followed by this one.  Again the ground falls away sharply to the right and only a well struck 3 wood over the trees on the right stands a chance of leaving second shot of less than 200 yards.



However the tiny green is best approached from the left-hand side and there’s no way of holding a ball on that side. This may have worked better as a bogey 5 than a par 4.


This is a view of the uphill par 3 7th. Like much of both courses it features pretty bold bunkering (Braid was more renowned for this than Taylor and as both courses have a similar style then one has to decide how much is due to the courses being worked over by the same hand or maintenance practices.)  This seems to have been the original line in, today it plays longer and from the right.


Simple par 5, 8th.

Blind tee shot on the 300 yard 9th.


Heavily defended green.


After another good par 3, there’s a driveable par 4 where the ball runs downhill and funnels towards the front to back sloping green. In summer the worst place to be is long, so the player faces a nice dilemma.  Looking back.

« Last Edit: November 06, 2006, 06:33:23 PM by Tony Muldoon »
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Tony_Muldoon

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Re:Hainault Forrest 1. Taylor
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2006, 06:31:21 PM »
12 is a long par 4 played across a hill to a large flat Heathland style green, 13 yet another uphill par 4 (my main beef with this course is the number of these).  14 a par 5 playing across the same valley as the 8th, but with a big slope on the green.

15 is a very short par 3, 115yards where you can’t see the putting surface.

Incidentally all the greens have a lot of subtle movements and putt lines are anything but predicable.

16 is another driveable par 4 – the line is the big Silver Birch.



17 is glorious and a favourite par 4.  With marker poles for both the tee shot and the 2nd it has  a big fall just in front of the green and again balls have to be run on to it. ~The picture can’t show the precipe the cameraman is standing on at this point.


The green is a great original. It funnels to the centre and then tilts front to back.  This line is also set at about 35 degrees off the line off the fairway.  Pins are often set half way up one of the side walls and the results are crazy, but once you accept that’s how it is you can’t help by have fun.  How I wish I could show you how extreme this is.

The 18th is another strong hole playing down hill with the green again running away from you.


Hainault Forrest is one of the great bargains of world golf. In summer you can pick up a twilight form £9.50 a round.  Conditioning has improved in recent years but you get what you pay for and the heavy clay doesn’t help.  It plays only 5900 to a par 70.  As you play it you are kept on your toes by the sheer variety of holes, a feeling I can only compare to the Berkshire Red.  The two courses were once called the busiest in Europe by Fore magazine and they do suffer form the amount of play they receive.  However that’s surely a testament to Taylor achieving his aim of getting everyman to play.  Can any other course, outside of Scotland, have given so much pleasure to so many?

I can’t imagine many GCA’ers crossing the Atlantic to play this but if you ever find yourself at Canary wharf and an afternoon to spare – you could do worse than play this historic gem.  His later work in Richmond Park brought him fame as a man who wanted everyman to play golf but this is the original.

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Adrian_Stiff

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Re:Hainault Forrest 1. Taylor
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2006, 06:44:07 PM »
Tony as you said you get what you pay for, it looks exceptionally good value golf, as I was scrolling I thought there werre some great opportunites to create a great golf course, then you mentioned heavy clay. It has some nice elevation changes. £9.50 twilight what a bargain for the London taxi drivers.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
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T_MacWood

Re:Hainault Forrest 1. Taylor
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2006, 09:08:20 AM »
Tony
I agree that C&W is a little confusing on this course. The original course opened in 1909 and was designed by Taylor, after that I'm not sure what happened or who did what.

In a 1925 advertisement Hawtree & Taylor listed these courses as recently constructed or remodeled...in this order:

Richmond Park (Princes and Dukes)
Highwood (Bexhill)
Chigwell
Rochford Hundred
Boyce Hill (Benfleet)
Hull
Swinton Park (Manchester)
Birmingham Municipal
Knowle (Bristol)
Herne Bay
Bognor
Denham
Sonning
St. Leonards-on-Sea
Hastings (I wonder if St. Leonards and Hasting are on and the same)
West Middlesex
Royal Musselburgh
Williamswood (Glasgow)
Littlehampton
Mid-Surrey Ladies
Chislehurst
All-Weather golf practice (Kennsington)
Royal Porthcawl

Tony_Muldoon

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Re:Hainault Forrest 1. Taylor
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2006, 12:51:33 PM »
Very interesting Tom. I had always understood that he origianally did the work alone and then the interest in public golf led him to a partnership with Hawtree.  However why not include it on the list?  I'll see what I can find out.

One thing I forgot to spell out explicitly wass taht this course features many short par 4's that retain interest as you attmept to get close, but also 5 par 4's over 400 yards to test the best.
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T_MacWood

Re:Hainault Forrest 1. Taylor
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2006, 01:19:42 PM »
Tony
I think your understanding is correct. He did work alone for many years - although he did collaborate on a few of his early projects (with Fernie, Braid, Hutchinson, etc) - but he was more or less a solo artist.

The list attached to the 1925 advert was not meant to be a comprehensive list in my view, but a list to highlight their recent activity...in the last year or so. The two went into partnership in 1923 and some of the first courses were not included (like Addington Palace) and none of Taylor's solo courses from what I can tell. My impression is these guys were very busy...one of the reasons being they specialized in redesign.

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re:Hainault Forrest 1. Taylor
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2006, 10:17:38 AM »
Tony, Thanks for posting these.  This sort of thing is so
valuable.  In our thirst for world greats we can so easily neglect the humble little courses which are so important to golf.