The funniest golf rankings yet

[David Wigler]

http://www.askmen.com/fashion/travel_top_ten/49_travel_top_ten.html

I posted the link first because I thought no one would believe me.  A golf writer by the name of Harry Marks rated the worlds top 10 courses as follows:

10. Nordcenter (Finland)
9. Cabo Del Sol
8. Hirono
7. El Saler (Spain)
6. Pine Valley
5. Tierra Del Sol (I am not kidding)
4. Woodhall Spa
3. Paraparauma Beach
2. Casa De Campo
1. Royal County Down

Given the wide range of places, this guy is obviously well traveled.  I cannot imagine how much it cost Tierra Del Sol to be ranked better than Pine Valley (Or even to make the list - Or even to make a worlds top 1,000 list).  Then again, I have never played PV.  Maybe Tierra Del Sol is better  

[TEPaul]

This is the best example yet of my standby architectural line;

"Golf and its architecture is a great big thing and there's room in it for everyone".

Long live Tierra del Sol (or whatever it's called)---at least in one man's mind!

[David Wigler]

Tom,

Tierra Del Sol is the best course in Aruba (It is the only one).  I do not believe it is in the ten best courses bordering the Caribbean.  My gut is that this ranking included a free week in a suite and many comps at the very cool casino.

[Craig Van Egmond]

David,

      When I was in Aruba there was a second course on the island that had sand greens.  Tierra Del Sol was still the best though.  

[Steve_L.]

Not only is Tierra del Sol the best in Aruba - its the best within one-hundred miles of Aruba!

[TEPaul]

"My gut is that this ranking included a free week in a suite and many comps at the very cool casino."

DavidW:

Well then, I'm prepared to agree that Tierra del Sol is the best in Aruba, the best within a hundred miles or even tops Pine Valley or even is the best in the world if they comp me that same way. Actually they'll have to throw in the airfare, the parking fee at the Philadelphia International airport and a case of first class wine too--but what's that when you're talking ranking world class golf architecture?

[ForkaB]

Dave

I assume you've never seen Tom Paul's top-secret ranking:

1.  Fernandina Beach
2.  Gulph Mills
3.  NGLA
4.  DuPont
5.  Pine Valley
6.  Mountain Lake
7.  Mallow
8.  Cypress Point
9.  Newcastle (Royal County Down)
10. Ardrossan

Not only is that group eccentric, two of those courses have never been built!

It would be funny if it were not so sad........

[Joel_Stewart]

I guess Harry Marks has never played Cypress Point or Pebble Beach?   I spent a week at Casa de Campo on my honeymoon but can't agree with him thats its the 2nd best course.

[ForkaB]

Yeah, Joel, and like you can really remember the subtleties of the mounding on the golf course you played on your honeymoon?  Not!

[Dave_Miller]

Tierra Del Sol would not make the list of the best 10,000 courses in the Western Hemisphere.
Best in the World???  This guy had to have more than a suite comp'd down there.

Cheers,
Dave

[David Wigler]

It's funny.  I did not mean this to become a bash of Tierra Del Sol.  It is a cute course and I felt RTJ Jr. did a nice job on a bad piece of land with some fantastic vistas.  I doubt TDS would claim to be a top 10 course.

I did mean this to highlight how certain rankings can be bought and to speculate on a price.  I know that is a bold accusation but I simply cannot fathom someone well traveled enough to have listed those other courses, putting Tierra Del Sol on that list.  It is insulting to anyone who has actually golfed great courses.  

If you assume nothing more than he has only played ten courses, then ranking TDS over Hirono, CBS, and Pine Valley is an outright joke.  Given that list, it is a fair assumption that is well traveld in Europe, the Far East, the US and the Caribbean.  In addition, he clearly has access to public and private courses.  To quote (Poorly) a famous line from one of my favorite movies "This might be the stupidest man on the face of the earth.  Maybe we should shoot him to put him out of his misery."    

[D._Kilfara]

Apparently nobody has noticed in the article where Mr. Marks says:

"Now I realize that I'm opening myself up for some criticism here, so let me toss out a disclaimer first. While the playability of the courses was an obvious factor, my primary criterion of judgment was the aesthetic pleasures afforded by each locale."

So: first criterion = aesthetics, second criterion = playability. Suddenly, his list doesn't look *that* out of whack (not that I know anything about TDS either), does it? What would your Top 10 be given those criteria? Mine would have to include Shiskine, the 12-hole course on the island of Arran, to give but one example...

Cheers,
Darren

[TEPaul]

Rich:

I love your secret list for me. GMGC has to come way off that though and Mountain Lake too but Fernindina will always be my solid #1.

But Ardrossan and Dupont--now I am inspired. I might have to give a hole by hole account of those two on here---guaranteed to blow minds. You should really like both of them though Rich because they're only designs not built. So they have to be very existentialist! They're all in the mind and that's all that matters, right?--the real thing, as great as it might be, pretty much has to be inherently absurd, right?

[Paul Richards]

David:

At least he's not that far off - he has Royal County Down at #1 - I'd place it at #2 myself.

[TEPaul]

"Best in the World  This guy had to have more than a suite comp'd down there."

DaveM:

Maybe they got Heidi Klum to talk to him about the course. She has done some SI shots in Aruba I believe. That girl could make me say anything. I'd even go public and say that I had proof Ron Prichard worked on Nassau C.C and did a really shitty job on the bunkers.

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

Is DuPont, the Fort Dupont golf course near Wilmington, Delaware ?

[D._Kilfara]

Apparently nobody has noticed in the article where Mr. Marks says:

"Now I realize that I'm opening myself up for some criticism here, so let me toss out a disclaimer first. While the playability of the courses was an obvious factor, my primary criterion of judgment was the aesthetic pleasures afforded by each locale."

So: first criterion = aesthetics, second criterion = playability. Suddenly, his list doesn't look *that* out of whack (not that I know anything about TDS either), does it? What would your Top 10 be given those criteria? Mine would have to include Shiskine, the 12-hole course on the island of Arran, to give but one example...

Cheers,
Darren

Do you ever get the feeling that you're invisible to everyone around you?

Tom/Rich, is Ardrossan in Scotland somewhere, or am I getting my Ardrossans confused?

Cheers,
Darren

(Btw, I have no idea why all of the text below the quote is bold...)

[TEPaul]

"TEPaul,
Is DuPont, the Fort Dupont golf course near Wilmington, Delaware?"

Pat:

No, I'm afraid not. The Dupont that Rich is probably referring to is a course design I did on the corner of the 800 acre Dupont estate in Newtown Square, Pa. An incredible, amazing, radically interesting design that is now only on paper (topo). But anyone who sees it even if only on the topo could not help but admit it was world top 10 material.

Somewhat akin to an NLE course I call it a NWB course (never was built). It was one of two possibilities if GMGC decided to move. Coore walked it with me in the beginning. He told me the land was a little problematic but it only took me about 200 hours out there to solve those problems!

Actually, Pat, I'll tell you how I solved those land problems on the Dupont design. It was one of the most clever solutions imaginable. I added about 60 acres onto it from the rest of the Dupont place and about 40 acres from a property next door. The fact that would have added millions of dollars onto the project didn't matter to me at all--I was out to design the best of the best and I did that in spades.  

[ForkaB]

Darren

"Adrossan Farms" is out in Merion country, and is yet another of TEP's NWB courses.  We Pollyannas still hold out hope for that quirky 9-holer at Featherfield Farm........

[Andy Levett]

The last sentence puzzles me...

"So there you have it; the ten most amazing public golf courses in the world -- perhaps once you go pro, you can tell me how Augusta National is."

Even if you define public as 'courses the public can play without a member'  that still leaves Pine Valley and Hirono.

[David Wigler]

Darren,

I will respond so you do not go crazy.  I never read that.  The conclusion was so insane that I was scared to read the thought process behind it for fear of going blind (It is the same defense mechanism that instantly changes the channel whenever Rosie O’Donnell or Michael Moore begin to speak).

Andy Levett found the funniest line in the whole thing at the conclusion when he now requalifies the list as the ten most amazing public courses in the world.  Now the omission of Pebble Beach is really glaring and the inclusion of Pine Valley makes him even stupider (If possible).

TDS has some nice vistas but is hardly an extremely payable course.  Severe trade winds are everywhere.  The course has average conditions and many marsh areas to cover.  Whistling Straits, Arcadia Bluffs, Bandon Dunes, and Pacific Dunes all blow it away if the qualifications are Public, Playable, and Aesthetically Pleasing.  With those as the qualifications, Pacific Dunes might never be matched.  Heck, you all have read my opinions on most of Art Hills work but both Bay Harbor and Half Moon Bay Ocean destroy TDS with those as the qualifications.

My guess is that Tom Paul had it right.  If the trip involved comps and Heidi Klumm, I could see being talked into having politicking for Art Hills to return to my home course for more of his expert bunker renovation work.

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul & David Wigler,

I played Nassau CC yesterday for the first time.

Who redid the bunkers there, and how many years ago ?

The head pro was only 33 years old, new to the golf course and didn't know much about the bunker work.

Is there a seperate thread on Nassau ?

They had some neat aerials from the 20's and 30's in the locker room.

[Tim_Weiman]

Paul Richards:

I agree this fellow has a pretty good choice for #1, though I've never been thrilled with the finish at RCD. Hirono is the other in his top ten that I'd like to see someday.