Florida's 3rd Best Course ?

[Matt_Ward]

Back by popular demand is the continuing series of "3rd best courses." It was raised in the companion Pennsy thread that one should be started for Florida.

So be it.

Given my unbridled love for the land of flatness   I'd like to know what course merits the 3rd position in the state? Given the 1,000+ courses it's a really big field to handicap.

I'll venture forth and say that the two courses in the state are:

1). Seminole
2). TPC / Stadium

If I had to name a 3rd place finisher it would be a battle between plenty of legitimate candidates among them:

Ocean Hammock / Palm Coast
World Woods (Pine Barrens) / Brooksville
Innisbrook (Copperhead) / Tarpon Springs

Clearly, there are a few other candidates that will merit plenty of discussion. Let the name'in begin with earnest ...

[Jim_Michaels]

I don't know, but I am certain that Doral is Florida's 100th best!

[John_Cullum]

What surprises me is that Matt is so impressed with Innisbrook Copperhead. On several occasions on this site I have read his approval of this course. I played it once and found it okay, but I can name a number of courses I feel are better. Knowing how he feels about Florida golf, and also knowing that he plays more courses than almost any golf fanatic, I am bewildered why he chooses Copperhead over Jupiter Hills, Old Memorial, and quite a few others.

[dfrey]

I'll nominate my own club - Old Marsh.

Just kidding......it isn't in the top 3 or 5 but is a fun place to play.  JHills, Indian Creek and Mountain Lake should vie for #3.

[Matt_Ward]

Sarge:

You may need to revisit the course when time permits. Here you have a piece of land that is simply beyond Florida. When you get off the main Highway -- I believe it's 19 -- you enter a facility far from the maddening congestion that makes Florida so endearing. You may technically be in the Sunshine State but the feel of the property gives you more of a sense of being in the Tar Heel State IMHO.

To be fair there are 27 holes that make up the Copperhead. I believe the best combo is the 1st and 3rd but others may want to weigh in with that part of the equation.

Copperhead does have H20 and you have to mind your manners when driving the ball but the course also isn't near the overabundance of clutter for the eye as is the case with many other Florida layouts.

Last I also checked the layout did quite well when the PGA Tour's Chrysler Championship event came through town.

Sarge -- I did forget one other layout worth considering -- Black Diamond / Quarry. Oh -- I have to add this -- TPC / Stadium is clearly a unique and most pivotal courses to be designed by Pete Dye. It also goes beyond the par-3 17th -- although that often becomes a good bit of the focus come tournament time. If you don't have it as second -- where would you place it and why?

Thanks ...

[John_Cullum]

Matt
I think TPC has some great holes. I like 16, which is almost heresy around here because a tree comes into play. I say it is top 10. And I must admit I have not played many of the courses that I think would rate higher than Copperhead. But based on my playing Copperhead and my impressions of it, I don't find it hard to beat. I despise that hole (# 9?) with the Innisbrook shrub garden. I don't think I would give it top 3 in the Tampa area. Try Avila, Lake Jovita, Palma Ceia, TPC Tampa Bay, Bloomingdale, Old memorial.

[SPDB]

It's either Indian Creek or Johns Island West, IMO.

[John_Conley]

Considering I haven't yet agreed with any of the discussion on this thread... I abstain from inflicting my opinion.

[John_Conley]

To be fair there are 27 holes that make up the Copperhead. I believe the best combo is the 1st and 3rd but others may want to weigh in with that part of the equation.

Did I miss something?

[cary lichtenstein]

I'll throw the Ritz into the mix.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Matt Ward,

Boca Rio

[ChipOat]

Sarge:

Mountain Lake better than TPC Sawgrass??

I think Raynor's work is wonderful but TPC is one of Pete Dye's best IMO.  And he, IMO, is at least the equal of Raynor, Thomas, Tillinghast, etc.

Not everybody here objects to trees being part of a hole's strategy.  Mostly it's redanman, me and a few other courageous souls.

Matt:

I go with Bay Hill although I've not played any other legitimate candidates (including Boca Rio).

Sean:

Indian Creek's a fabulous spot and a couple of the green complexes look like Flynn was trying them out to see if they'd work at Shinnecock (years before he ever got that job - I know).

But #3 in Florida?  Lots of good new ones built down there in the last 20 years, I hear.

[Matt_Ward]

John C:

I misstated the combination of nines I favor at Copperhead -- I believe the nines I liked best were #1 and #2.

Clearly, there's plenty in Florida that can battle for the position -- I'm curious why World Woods / Pine Barrens layout doesn't get much mention?

[EAF]

World Woods is a very good golf course for Florida or any not so flat state (Long Island?   ) I haven't lived here long enough to play too many of the other top courses, but there must be better courses for the #3 slot. I hope to get a chance to rate Black Diamond Ranch and vote it #3.

[Andy Hughes]

Hmm, not sure why World Worlds isn't getting any love and affection here. Is it so far off the beaten path that most people haven't seen it? I always considered it mostly one interesting hole after another. What are the drawbacks?

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

I  think #3 is a very close choice and enjoy the above mentioned.  I absolutely loved playing Mountain Lakes last year.  I think Palm Beach Polo deserves consideration.  It is capable of being an ultra-beast hard course, but an average player can get around quite competently using a little strategy and the correct tees!

[Wayne Freeman]

   Although I've not played yet in Florida, after Seminole and TPC, isn't Jupiter Hills the most highly rated?

[Jim Franklin]

Matt Ward -

Calusa Pines is #3 (maybe even #2) in Florida. If you have not played it you should. I would say Jupiter Hills follows that with Pine Barrens and Pine Tree next.

[Top100Guru]

How about we look at it from this perspective:

CLASSICAL
1. Seminole
2. Mountain Lake
3. Indian Creek


MODERN
1. TPC Sawgrass
2. Jupiter Hills
3. Calussa Pines

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Jupiter Hills belongs in this dicussion and any Ritz or Trump course does not. It is clear that Seminole is the only sure play here.

[John_Cullum]

I think the reason World Woods, PB is getting knocked down is because of the conditioning. When bermuda grasses get beat down, and the greens gets too long and grainy, the course can really get unenjoyable to play.

But purely from an architectural perspective, it could be a very close second.

[Pete Buczkowski]

I agree re: World Woods.  It is quite unique, especially for Florida, and think it gets knocked a bit due to conditioning.  After talking with the pro shop a few weeks ago, that is starting to turn around.  IMO, this course is Top 100 if the conditioning is right.

Matt W:  I have not played Copperhead yet.  How does it stack up against WW PB or Ocean Hammock?  A round at Copperhead costs the same as 4 rounds at PB during the fall.  Would you prefer 1 round at Copperhead to 4 rounds at PB?  I only ask because $200 is roughly my *monthly* travel budget.

Do you prefer Ocean Hammock or WW PB?  I personally prefer WW PB, especially if the conditions are right.  I love OH but think that the ocean setting gives it a boost.  OH has some very interesting driving holes due to centerline bunkers but PB holds more driving interest throughout the entire course.  There is a bit too much water on OH and many of the tee shots have the same "cape" structure (doesn't this occur about 6 times during the round?).  

Interested to hear your thoughts - thanks.

Pete

[gookin]

My actual playing experience in Fla. is limited to Indian Creek, Bent Pine, Mountain Lake, and the Johns Island courses. All are great fun to play.  Mountain Lake would be my favorite.  JI West from the tips is the most difficult.  My view on Indian Creek; the place is fabulous, but the stone crabs on the buffet are better than the course.

[dfrey]

Any course down here is good today..........I just got off the links.........it was beautiful!!!!!!

[rgkeller]

I've played most of the Florida courses mentioned here.

Forgetting the housing development aspect and ambiance and going strictly with shot values and strategic options, the new Fazio course at Mirasol is as good a golf course as you will find in Florida.