What are the best skyline greens in the US ?

[Patrick_Mucci_Jr]

Skyline greens have always fascinated me.
Even hybrid skyline greens.

I think of # 5 at The Creek as an excellent example of a skyline green.

# 18 at NGLA could be considered a hybrid skyline green, and when the trees are removed in the distance, a true skyline green.

#8 at Atlantic could be considered a hybrid/skyline green as well.

# 4 at Hollywood could be considered a skyline green too.

These greens seem to enjoy two elements, more wind exposure and no surrounding features to provide depth perception.

What are some of your favorite skyline greens, and why ?

SECOND QUESTION,

How does the length of your shot into a skyline green affect your feel for the hole and your evaluation of the hole ?

[TEPaul]

Patrick:

Great question. I don't really know what's the best but I can tell you what might have been and even if it never was totally could certainly be now.

#2 Pine Valley!! It would be completely awesome with that significantly great raised green. The interesting point is that the trees visible behind the green now from the fairway (or even the tee) could be some of the most non-essential at PV--and that's lucky--all things considered.

Another great one there that once was but could probably never be again was left #9.

#8 NGLA might have a chance of being and interesting one but I wouldn't recommend it for a variety of reasons. You're right #18 will be an awesome skyline green!

[ed_getka]

By skyline I presume you mean the green is elevated above your approach shot. The test there, particularly for me, is trying to hit a shot in there high enough to hold the green, since the elevation serves to flatten the trajectory of my approach.

I don't think a green has to be elevated to make the depth perception tricky. #2 at Kingsley Club comes to mind. There are no surrounding features so the depth perception issue causes uncertainty. The green is only 130 yds or so away and yet it is one of the most intimidating par 3's I'ved played of that length. The wind makes it that much tougher.

[Mike Hendren]

I assume a skyline green has only the sky as a backdrop.

Regards,

Mike

[JakaB]

The 14th at Torrey Pines South was relocated back and to the left of the original by Rees Jones in a stroke of genius...nothing behind but an unending view of the ocean horizon...with the baranca between...depth perception is deceptive enough even the pros were hitting poor 130 yd approaches.   Its so damn good most people refuse to see it for what it is...they just make bogey and enjoy the views.

[JakaB]

Shivas,

Doesn't that dogleg at Beverly that has your number have one hell of a skyline green...or is it the next hole...I just remember a green all perched up high in the air with no backdrop that was one hell of a bitch to hit.

[wsmorrison]

I very much like skyline greens and fairways (4th at Pine Valley, 16th at Dornoch, etc).  With recent tree removal programs, mostly initiated by agronomic considerations in the Philly area, it is easy to consider the affect on golfer's minds as many greens that formerly had trees behind them no longer
do.  The shots are more difficult without the visual cues.

With the trees removed from behind the 2nd green at Philadelphia Country Club and the depth perception cues removed, the approach shot is much more difficult to judge.  There are large and deep fronting bunkers that you know have slope behind.  An easy shot at one time is much more difficult...the only difference is the perception and how it weighs on the mind of the golfer.

18th green at Rolling Green had the rear greenside trees removed, it effects one's perception more so on a long 2nd shot into the green as opposed to a short 3rd shot approach.

There are some at Indian Creek (haven't been there but Craig Disher's photos show clearly) that look particularly interesting as water looms behind.

Yeamans Hall has a par 4 (8th?) with a skyline effect with the tidal marsh in the background.

[Ran Morrissett]

One reason Fishers Island is among my very favorites is because of its skyline greens, with the 3rd being a particular favorite - carrying a wedge all the way to the back hole locations is one of golf's most nervy approach shots, thanks to a steep drop/death just over the green.

[SPDB]

In addition to Ran's excellent example, I would also use the Knoll at Piping Rock. from the bottom of the hill the green is all skyline:

[Mike Benham]

From the left coast,

6th at Pebble ...
3rd at Spyglass ...
12th at Wente (Huckaby's favorite, not mine) ...

and for those that played Pajaro in the King's Putter, the 16th ...

[Jeff_Mingay]

Donald Ross' 13th at Franklin Hills in suburban Detroit has a wonderful skyline green. The putting surface there sits atop a high, volcano-like knob, and is only about 1,500 sq. ft. The approach is definitely a '2 or 20' proposition!

[SPDB]

Pat - also, I don't think the 5th at The Creek is a skyline green, there is no push up on the green, and it is framed in the background by trees (albeit beyond the road). The best example of a skyline green at The Creek is, in my opinion, the 16th, where you play down into the Valley, and then back up into the green, which is framed by nothing except sky.

[JSlonis]

The 13th at Piping Rock is a hole that immediately came to mind...thanks to SPDB for posting a great picture.  It is a very difficult green to a back hole location.

The 18th at Huntingdon Valley is a great skyline green when the Flagstick is on the righthand portion of that green.

[brad_miller]

Sean, did you mean #15 or 16 at the Creek? How about 17 at Prairie Dunes, at least in the 50's, but then it played as #8.

[T_MacWood]

Pat
I agree with Jeff on the 13th at Franklin Hills, totally unique and perhaps the ultimate skyline. The 13th at Pinehurst #2 is another that comes to mind.

[GeoffreyC]

Isn't the original supposed to be the 11th (eden) at St. Andrews.

The last time I was at Pinehurst, they cleared away the trees and scrub behind the thirrd green and it is truly a terifying wedge shot to that tabletop green without the depth perception I remember from previous visits.

[Pete Lavallee]

I like #10 at Pacific Dunes, even from the upper tee, there's nothing to stop a shot that's too bold from rolling into the Pacific.

[Mike Hendren]

The 16th at Whistling Straits?

I believe John Stiles once confirmed that the 17th at Holston Hills was a skyline now obscured by trees overlooking the river bluff.  That would give a notable feature to what is today a rather pedestrian hole.

Regards,

Mike

[Dunlop_White]

Here are a couple of shots of the skyline green at Hole no. 17 at Roaring Gap Club which Donald Ross incorporated next to a mountain ledge about 3000 feet above sea level.  Without a framework of trees or other vegetation, the approach lacks diminsion, containment, and points of visual reference. Golfers, therefore, must "feel" their approaches into the hole.

[Mike_Cirba]

Tom Fazio created a wonderful skyline green on the 9th hole of Pine Hill in New Jersey.

His 1st green at Galloway National also has some skyline qualities.

There, I feel better.  

[Scott_Burroughs]

I could have sworn it looked different than this, but it feels more like a skyline hole at #11 at Plainfield than it looks here:

[Keith Williams]

I think they switched the nines, but the original 2nd at
Pinon Hills has a great skyline green.

Keith.

[TEPaul]

redanman:

The reason I said in the 2nd post that I didn't really think the left 9th at PVGC would work that well anymore as a skyline green is because it could be exposed as a skyline again if they cut the trees down behind that green only. However, if they did that now it would look odd and probably contrived compared to what it once looked like as a skyline green back in the teens and 1920s. The reason is there are so many big trees on either side of that green and behind it returning it as a skyline would create and enormous gap and would look weird both approaching the green and also from #18 below.

I'm afraid the same basic problem exists if NGLA ever tried to make #8 into a Skyline--there's basically an enormous forest behind it and it would just create and odd looking gap

SPDB:

I think #13 Pipinng would be a great skyline green and obviously once was; unfortunately those enormous trees way behind the green down by the tennis courts are too big and you'd have to be right underneath the green extremely close to the green to make it work and being that close sort of makes it lose it's effectiveness.

Not a sklyine but another neat lack of depth perception hole is #9 Fishers with just the expanse of the bay directly behind it. I recall #7 is a skyline green too, I think. And #8 must be. I don't know what's behind #18 Fisher's either except a lot of trees but that might be another great candidate if the club got gutsy! I bet it was once a nice skyline! I know it must have been following the 1938 hurricane because there wasn't a single tree left standing on Fishers island after that gust!

But to me the mother of all skyline greens could be #2 Pine Valley. That hole from anywhere on the fairway with nothing but sky behind it would be an awesome sight--plus with the wind coming at you it might be about 5 more clubs instead of the 1-3 it generally is with the trees behind it.

[Jim_Kennedy]

These aren't too bad:

[Matt_Ward]

On the Jersey side I have to say the 18th at Essex County. On the New York side how about the par-3 16th at Sleepy Hollow!

On the public front -- I'd have to mention the 15th at Bethpage Black -- talk about being elevated!