Worst Architect mistakes?????

[Tom Naccarato]

Without naming architects (If you want) what is the worst design mistake you have ever seen or encountered?This can be catagorized if wanted by Architect, Superintendent, or Professional.

[TEPaul]

The worst mistake I've seen was at a course near Pittsburgh called Treesdale C.C. (an Arnold Palmer design) on the 10th hole.I have to set this up for you. This is in the 1999 Pennsylvania State Amateur (72 hole stroke) and the Pa. Golf Assoc. does not allow carts and the club did not provide caddies and it is about 99 degrees and everyone is carrying. I'm also fifty five years old, I smoke too much and this place is really hilly with about nineteen miles of cart paths from greens to tees!I'm starting the tournament on the 10th hole and there is a group or two ahead of me. The 10th appeared very dramatic from a high tee down into a valley with a stream meandering in a V-shape. The fairway was v-shaped and framed directly behind by an enormous hill. I kept staring at the hole and couldn't figure out for the life of me if the hole went directly right or directly left on the second shot (par 5, by the way). This question was answered when the first group eventually walked left. We all hit good drives and on our way down at least one in the group ahead came back to hit again. When we reached the fairway we could see it apparently proceeded around the base of this enormous hill but the rest was totally blind. It was too far to walk the probably 190 yds to see where things went (and we were probably already on the clock) so we all hit good long irons over a corner of the hill. When we got around the hill the fairway was very narrow and bordered all the way to the green on the left by a lateral hazard. I was on a cart path that wrapped around the base of the hill that was blind from the second shot and of my fellow competitors, one was within inches of the hazard and the other had obviously hit the cart path and bounded the short distance across the fairway into the hazard. The grass was pretty short everywhere so we gave that guy reasonable evidence that he was in the hazard (sorry John you can't disqualify us now). I saw the group behind us do the same thing and the next day more of the same. The hole was one of the most bizarre designs I've ever seen only topped in boneheadedness by the placement of that cart !#@? cart path!The rest of the course was unbelievably pretty good.

[Tom Naccarato]

My own local home course for years, Mountain View CC had a golf pro (that was hired by the club's Taiwainese owner) decided to install a pond some 120 yards out from the green. It is one of the most natural and strategic holes on ther course which weaves in and out of a very small and natural canyon and one can play several different ways to get to the green.  After he had announced he was going to do this, many of the local members just shook their heads in disbelief.  Why on earth would he want to change one of the more challenging holes on the course?  He was given the go ahead by the owner, started work with the maintanence crew and himself ass construction foreman, and by days end had the whole crew quit on him!The partial hole sat empty for over a month when the owner finally had a chance to go out and play and saw that the hole had not been finished, promptly went into the clubhouse and fired the pro on the spot.It turns out that he wasn't even PGA!Remnants can still be seen as the course still to this day has yet to get the excavation smoothed out.

[JohnV]

When Bob Cupp was designing Pumpkin Ridge's Witch Hollow course, he designed the 7th hole to be a long par 5 that headed off to the right from the tee, straightened out for a while and then turned left into a green that was angled to receive the shot.  The longer hitter could opt to cut across a wasteland of long fescue on the second shot and possibly even reach the 600+ hole in two.  There was a bunker that angled out into the fairway to catch the shot that was slightly short of carrying.Anyway, a drawing of this hole which would have had some nice strategy and challange to it still hangs in the entrance to the men's locker room.  Right there on the drawing is a note from John Fought saying, "Some nice oaks, we should save them."  The owners and Mr. Fought evidently liked these trees so much that they made Cupp change the hole into a straight away 623 yard hole.  Now the hole has 8 40-60 foot oaks that should have been cut down overhanging the fairway and taking the entire right side out of play. This forces players to aim left and try to cut the ball.  Which means they hit into the 8th fairway and vice versa.  It is the one place on the property that is dangerous.  Also, the bunker that was to come in from the left became a cross-bunker that the USGA had removed.  All in all, the hole is a disaster, Cupp knows it and hates it, but he was lost the battle.Also, the green is still angled for the shot from the original angle which makes it play very weird.

[Gib_Papazian]

How about the pond at the 17th hole at Royal County Down. Was that natural or just a bad idea?

[Ran Morrissett]

My pet hate is constrictiveness, be it through a "bowling lane" looking line of trees or water on both sides of the fairway or whatever. I block courses out of my mind that play narrow, so I'm afriad I don't have any good examples to give. PS Gib, I was told the pond is natural - I asked the same question.

[Ted_Sturges]

To Ran:Then a course upon which a good driving day by you might produce hitting all the fairways in regulation must be to your liking?  A golf course to be cherished?