Holy Grails of Golf

[Robert Kimball]

Huckster: For me it used to be Augusta hands down. but through my further study of arcitecture (this forum included), my view has changed a little.  

Hell ya I'd play Augusta, but I would drop all plans and get to a Delta ticket booth to play:
Cypress
Seminole
Pine Valley
Augusta

[Bob_Huntley]

Tom.

I think Des has your tits in the wringer.

[THuckaby2]

Good stuff, Rob - and I admire that you are into this whole architecture thing enough to have the bastardized Augusta removed from your list or at least lowered.  Me, it's still the home of the Masters and I still would drop everything to play where so much history has occurred.  In a perfect world they'd magically restore the course to 1933 or so conditions, but if the invite came I'd be a beggar who wasn't choosing.

TH

[THuckaby2]

Perhaps he does, Bob.  Oh well.  Hey, there's no rationalizing or quantifying things like this, which are so inherently personal and emotional...

Love the line in any case!  

TH

[Des_Douglas]

So what do ANGC, Cypress Point and Pine Valley have over the other great courses in the world, that aren't the Home of Golf, and aren't exclusive?

[THuckaby2]

You have my tits too much in a wringer to figure out that triple negative, Des.

I guess what you're asking is what's so great about these three to give them grail status over others that might get such due for some other reason?

1. They each have a "mystique" that goes beyond access...  due to word of mouth, magazine rankings, availability of many pictures, books being written on them, and in the case of Augusta, a rich tournament history that surpasses nearly every other course in the land...

2. By all accounts from anyone playing them, they are a joy to play and to be at - the ambiance inside each is reputed to be wonderful.  Snapper soup at PVGC, low-key cabins and welcoming treatment at Augusta, beauty beyond compare beyond the welcoming feeling at Cypress....

3.  Sure, each would make for some fantastic stories to tell the friends back home.

So I'm sure you're not going to learn anything from this... and depending on one's status in life, none of this might have any meaning...

For most golfers though, all of these things do have meaning, in a big way.

I've been to one of them and the memories from there are among the most cherished I have.  

This is all very emotional and personal though, and I don't expect it to matter to everyone.  Again, if it doesn't matter to you, that is very fine.

TH

[Craig Van Egmond]

Poor Tom,

    First they went after your balls and now your tits.  

[THuckaby2]

Craig - love it!  Damn, I am left a shredded wreck of my former self.  Now Conley's after me as the sole supporter of the GD system.... luckily he hasn't asked for another body part!

TH

[Des_Douglas]

Point 1:  The mystique doesn't go beyond access/exclusivity.  The mystique is because of the limited access.  If anyone could play these courses, how much mystique would they have?  Where's the mystery?

Point 3: = Access and bragging rights

Point 2 :  All about exclusivity and access.  Even the tournament factors.  Is there a more exclusive tournament than Augusta?

[Bob_Huntley]

Des.

I'll come to the rescue of my good friend, the Huckster.

Excitement. When you play PV, CP, ANGC there is a palpable sense of excitement that may not be there elsewhere. It has nothing to do with access. I think I have played a goodly number of the fairest, both here and around the world. Were I allowed only three golf courses to play before being carted off  this mortal coil I might well choose the three mentioned above. However, I am determined to last another eighteen months and play Mike Strantz's MPCC's Shore Course, after only two months and four holes shaped it looks fantastic.

[Robert Kimball]

I hear the locker room alone is reason enough to put Seminole on my list.  

Are we assuming that we will actually play well on these courses?  Hell, I'd be so jacked-up/nervous, I'd be lucky to make contact.  Probably how a Masters rookie feels when he is on the 1st tee Thursday.

[THuckaby2]

Such is your opinion and I respect it, Des.  I disagree completely with how you assess this, but I'm also tired of arguing about something that's supposed to be fun.

So ok, say I agree with all of it.

There are still plenty of other clubs that have the exclusivity that you seem to believe is the sole reason for what I'm calling grail status, but that don't achieve such.  What sets these three (and perhaps the others we've mentioned) apart is the degree to which they hold these factors.  There are far more difficult clubs to access than these three.

Disagree?

TH

[THuckaby2]

Whew - many thanks, Bob.  Des did have me on the ropes and the referee was moving in to stop the fight....

TH

[Des_Douglas]

There are a number of courses that are every bit as EXCITING as those three.  But don't have exclusivity and the inherent "mystique".

[THuckaby2]

Now you're getting it, Des.  To be a grail you have to have it all.  Exclusivity is a big part of it, just not the ONLY qualification.

TH

[Jimmy Muratt]

I have seven courses that I would drop everything right now and head to the airport:

Pine Valley
Cypress Point
Sand Hills
National Golf Links
Shinnecock Hills
Augusta National
Friar's Head

[THuckaby2]

What, Jimmy, a simple cool answer without complaints about the question?  How novel!  How unique!  I am shocked!

TH

ps - sorry, none of this is directed at you, it's just that Des does have me worn out.    From all accounts Friar's Head is going to achieve this status, if it hasn't already.

[ChipOat]

You guys have a more understanding warden than I.  My criteria has to include that SHE will want to move our anniversary dinner to the new locale and go with me.

Augusta
Cypress
Seminole
Merion
Shinnecock

Left to my own devices (no chance), I would add Pine Valley.

The list of invites that I've had to decline in the past 5 years for business or personal reasons due to travel time would make me cry and make you guys question my credibility on this site.

[THuckaby2]

GREAT list, Chip.

And yes, we all have our own realities on this.  My own personal SHE, God love her, just began the fight about Sand Hills with "you're going to NEBRASKA to play golf?"  After several hours of "discussion", she did allow such.  But you wanna talk about honey-do's in return.....

In any case the reality is SHE must be persuaded, and obeyed.  VERY good qualification.

So for guys like us, one of the defining issues is more than just "will you jump on the plane tomorrow" - it's "are you willing to spend ALL your marital capital."

And that narrows down the list very quickly, doesn't it?  

TH

ps - Wigler doesn't count on this because not only is his wife wonderful, beautiful, cool and understanding, she actually plays the game pretty damn well.  So Dave's issue is more persuading her why she can't come along if that's the case!

[Mike Benham]

Des,

I have stated somewhere on this board that I would (should) drop everything, hop on a plane, fly to EDI and play the Old Course.

Of course, I stated that the reason I would do this is to use all my frequent flyer miles on United before they go out of business.

I would rather title the challenge as "things to do before I die" ...

Hole in one - check (although I didn't see it go in the hole ... major bummer).
Cypress Point - check
Scotland golf - open item
etc.

[THuckaby2]

Well said, Mike.  "Things to do re golf if at all possible before one dies" might be a better way to state all this.

And given that the vast majority of golfers have about as much chance of, and control over, getting to these places as making an ace, it's very valid to put that in there also.

Of course adding that to the great triumvirate leaves me still with but one check mark, so screw you, thanks for the reminder!  

TH

[Stan Dodd]

TH and chip,
I count my lucky stars..when an invite came down for CPC she was the one who said 'you can't miss that".  She also was quite gracious in Scotland last trip in which I played 26 rounds... as long as she got a Tennants 80 shilling and a nice dinner.
 so... Pine Valley, CPC, Shinney, ANGC nothing new here.

[THuckaby2]

whitey, count your wife among the good ones if you don't already.

Mine also treated CPC the same way. Even she had heard of that and even seen it, and it is local.

Sand Hills on the other hand....  

TH

[John Foley]

Who among us has not had their significant other/better half say "Your going to Nebraska to play golf!!!!"

Florida, Hawaii, Monterey, totally different answers & expectations.

The interesting thing about this excersize is how similar the lists are. There's almost no outliers. Would you drop anything to go to Valhalla or Sahalee (they've had majors!). What about a Carmago, Redtail or Peachtree. Fine architectural courses, but hardly the excitment generator of an PV or Merion.

[THuckaby2]

JF - great points, all of them.  Not to pick on the great state of Nebraska, but it's never going to be known as a great vacation spot nationwide!  It's funny to think though how each who has made the pilgrimage likely got the same spousal reaction.

Also very interesting how the lists are similar... but then again, this necessarily has to be a short list... there was only ONE true Grail, after all.  

TH