[RJ_Daley]

I'd try to make the case for Whistling STraits, which was nothing much before Dye got at it.

[Bruce Katona]

I've been to Tobacco Road to visit, but not play.  The Drive past the industrial use at the front entrance is not on my list of positives to developing any site.

[Tim Leahy]

Empire Lakes in Ontario, Ca. As you drive up through a business park, all you see is flat nothing land. Palmer group did a wonderful job of carving out an interesting course from nothing. It even has a view of the mountains when the smog lifts.

[Sean Leary]

I'd like to see the answers on a horrible site more based on difficult piece of property rather than a flat listless site where something was created from scratch.  I would think that would be harder to make into a good course. KBM's Morgan Hill seems to get high reviews on this sort of a site,  as do some of Jim Engh's mountain courses..

[Gene Greco]

I'd like to see the answers on a horrible site more based on difficult piece of property rather than a flat listless site where something was created from scratch.  I would think that would be harder to make into a good course. KBM's Morgan Hill seems to get high reviews on this sort of a site,  as do some of Jim Engh's mountain courses..

In that regard, one must consider Kapalua Plantation.

[Ken Fry]

Brickyard Golf Club alongside and inside the Indianapolis Motor Speedway.  From what I understand, there were many hazardous waste issues around the property.

[Sean_A]

The only really good course that I can think of on a tough site is Tobacco Road.  

Ciao

Sean

[Steve Lapper]

I'd like to see the answers on a horrible site more based on difficult piece of property rather than a flat listless site where something was created from scratch.  I would think that would be harder to make into a good course. KBM's Morgan Hill seems to get high reviews on this sort of a site,  as do some of Jim Engh's mountain courses..

In that regard, one must consider Kapalua Plantation.

Gene,

   As Ran earlier noted, it would be very hard to classify Kapalua Plantation as a "bad" site. The land may indeed be sever in spots, but not as severe or preclusive to the potential of good golf as say a Morgan Hill. Instead, I might note that Southampton GC might qualify as that land would have made for excellent Hampton Highlan Mansions!!  

[DMoriarty]

Old Works in Anaconda Mt. probably deserves mention.  Built on two old copper smelters in one of the largest environmental messes and superfund sites in the country.   While the course itself has a few shortcomings it is extremely fun.  Nicklaus' people did a terrific job of integrating the course into some of the man-made features of the place, and even rebuilt a large creek/ small river that actually looks real (at least it did last time I was there.)

Here is an old photos of one of the two "Works" which previously existed on the site.  

[Evan Fleisher]

Dave,

I was scheduled to play there last year during a business trip but got snowed out...a real shame!!!

You may have picked a "winner" for this thread...that site is supposed to have been aweful!

[cary lichtenstein]

Before Jim Engh was hired to do Sanctuary, a number of architects said a golf course couldn/t be built on that piece of land and its a top 100 course.

The Quarry at Giants Ridge get my other vote

[Andy Troeger]

I don't know that I'd agree with where this is going. I think "absolutely horrible site" and difficult site are completely different things. When I think of the mountainous sites that some of the courses being mentioned were built from, I think of the difficult category, but at least then with some effort and possibly earth moving a great course can result. An absolutely horrible site to me is a completely flat cornfield devoid of any natural landforms or trees. I know some of you love these sites due to them being naturally windy, but personally I get wary if all I see on the way to a course are cornfields.

I haven't seen a course I liked come from one of these sites yet. The Brassie in Chesterton, IN is one that comes to mind. It looks like the design consisted of digging some ponds and bunkers and using the fill to create artificial mounds around them and to build up parts of the greens. Short of moving a lot of earth to make things more interesting, what could the architect really do?

[Paul Payne]

I can't believe nobody has mentioned Greywalls yet. I guess Mr. Sleeman is still in the throes of post wedding syndrome.

I grew up in Marquette and I know the property well where the golf course is now. It was a rocky, nubby hilltop with very choppy terrain. If anybody back in the seventies had suggested it could be the site for a world class golf course one day we would have laughed until he went back home to the lower penninsula.

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