Biarritz Holes

[SPDB]

Flop100guru:

How would you compare the Biarritz at Mtn Lake to those found at Yale, Piping Rock or Camargo? I happen to think it is not that difficult a hole, relative to its siblings at other courses. I'll admit to not seeing it post-Silva, but the swale wasn't terribly pronounced, and its is a tad on the short side for a Biarritz.

My only complaint was a pesky tree limb that wreaked havoc for a drawed shot from the back tees

[Donnie Beck]

Lester,

Cavalier Golf & Yacht has some interesting holes. My question is why you chose to flash the sand in the bunkers rather than restore more in the Raynor/Banks style?

[Top100Guru]

SPDB;

Perhaps you should play it "post Silva".........the hole really has a "pronounced swale" and it plays about 225 yards from the back tee....

As for the "Flop" 100Guru comment, I won't stoop to your level...as a famous GCA member once said, "personal attacks are not welcome here"

I see you are "truly a class act"

[Top100Guru]

Besides, the topic here was "Biarritz holes"...........not "best biarritz holes", and I never said it was the best, greatest, etc., I merely stated that it was "pretty darn good" and that "par was a good score"....

[SPDB]

Guru:

I appreciate your compliment.

What about my question re: comparisons to PRC, Yale, and Camargo?

[Top100Guru]

SPDB;

I truly like/love Piping Rock, Camargo, and Yale......although I have never been to Yale....they are all great clubs....I did play in the US Mid-AM qualifier at Yeaman's last summer and also found that course to be very good...T.D. did a fine job there....Raynor/CBM courses are amongst my favorites.....I only wanted people to know about M Lake's biarritz, as many people here at GCA have never been to M Lake, especially since the re-do.....

[Jim Thompson]

Ok I'll bite-

Construction drawing of #6 197 mid back tee to center.



Green is 70 yards deep and approx 40 yards wide.
A bit over 14,000 square feet.
Valley is a good 4 foot deep.

As seen from off back left quarter.  Pin is 8' tourney flag on rear tier.  Grow-in photo from September of '03.



Tee shot, you can see run-up... Sorry no flag. also in September '03



See you in May!

JT

[Keith Durrant]

http://www.ville-biarritz.fr/francais/cgi-bin/sport_golf_phare.asp

The link above should get you to a more detailed description of golf at Biarritz.  Most importantly, the photo on the home page shows where the original "Chasm" hole existed (it is the 200 yard+ the carry over the inlet of the ocean towards the condos at the top of the photo).

"...certains trous une fissure de l'océan, the chasm (le gouffre)..."

technical term: le gouffre  

Aren't we discussing two different concepts: a biarritz par 3 hole based on a forced carry over a valley; and a biarritz green with a valley in it?

[ForkaB]

rotcodd

I think that the conventional GCA wisdom is that CB's
Biaritz" was based on the "Chasm" hole.  I personally have found this to be a stretch too, and tried to argue for the 16th at North Berwick as being a more likely candidate, but without much support or success--at least from the MacDonophiles!

[TEPaul]

SPDB & Top100Guru;

The overhanging tree limb off the tee on Mountain Lake's Biarritz is gone. I don't know that ML's Biarritz had a swale in it prior to Silva's restoration--it certainly didn't when I played it prior to Silva's recent architectural work there. I don't believe the hole has particularly typical Biarritz bunkering either. I did play the course again post Silva restoration and the swale now is significant enough though.

Rich:

I certainly have no way of knowing but without any evidence to the contrary that I'm aware of, I'd agree with you and I sure wouldn't be surprised if Macdonald took the idea of the center swale (on his Biarritzes) from the green of North Berwick's #16 (The "Gate"). It seems logical that one could assume that dramatic swale on that hole has been there for a very long time--and I doubt Macdonald over 130 years ago could have failed to take note of it during his years at St Andrews!

[Mike Hendren]

 

Mike

[Rainmaker]

As many of you know Charles Banks worked with Raynor and actually finished many of Raynors projects upon his death.

Banks created Biarritz holes at both Forsgate CC in NJ and Tamarack CC in Greenwich, Ct.  The Forsgate green is only green beyond the swale while the Tamarack version has recently been restored under the guidance of Geoff Cornish and Superintendent Jeff Scott to a full Biarritz green before the swale and after.

Paul