GolfClubAtlas Top 100 - Major Proposal

[Bob Ellington]

Given the general discontent with other rankings, what if GCA established a panel (basically us) and created our own World Rankings? On the side tool bar to the left, "CGA's World Top 100" would be added and a bar below would read "Panellists". I know this part is asking a bit much but it is the only way I will ever see my name in bright lights.It is done once a year, maybe in January when not much is happening.This website is the ideal place because everybody is more or less a like(not to mention strong)-minded traditionalist. The end result should be pretty darn impressive.You develop a point system (10 for Pebble Beach and on down from there) and add them up. If 50 people respond, it wouldn't be too much work. What do we have to lose? If we screw it up, we can only blame ourselves (or maybe Ran while he hides in Australia).Ran and John, are you game? Would others participate? Please respond yea or na. It is just a thought but I would be happy to do any work to make it easier to pursue.

[James Clifford]

I like it. We have people in Australia, NZ, across the US and most of us have traveled to the UK several times. However, I may have only played 25-35 courses that should be in the top 100. I take it I would just vote on them?If Royal Melbourne is top 10, I give it a 10. If Lake Karrinyup is in the 8th 10 (ie 80-89), I would give it a 2? Does that work?Simple enough to do.

[Scott Kraus]

I would like to participate in something like this because I would get a sense of "ownership" as to the final result. However, the last thing the world needs is another "ranking." You would want to do it differently somehow. No ideas at the moment on how but I will think about it. Maybe a combination between a top 50 Modern and Classic courses from around the world?

[Ran Morrissett]

Thoughts on the subject:1.Scott is exactly right - unless we come up with something different why do it? Golf Magazine's world ranking has always been very good. So what if people disagree with 10-25% of it? That is still agreeing with the vast majority of it.2. Not everyone would be on the panel - the end result is only as knowledgeable as the people voting. Maybe have 25 people or so.3. A plus we have going is geographic dispersion - we would have 3/4 people in Australia, 1 in Hawaii, 3/4 on the west coast of the US, 3/4 in the middle of the US, 5/6 on the east coast, and 3/4 in the UK. The people on the chat line are well traveled too.4. It would only be a world ranking.5. Adding it as another section to the website is easy.6. Doing it is easy through email.7. No aliases.The website can certainly be used for any "community" undertaking; I guess some ranking  is the most obvious example but if people can come up with a new or different format worth pursuing that excites everyone, then let's do it.

[Glenn Spencer]

Did this idea ever get its sea legs over the years?

[Jeff_Mingay]

I've heard through the grapevine that GOLF magazine may stop ranking the World Top 100. If that happens, perhaps GolfClubAtlas.com should pick up the task. After all, GOLF is currently the only such ranking of the world's best courses. And, in many respects, it would be a shame if such a ranking ceased.  

[MikeJones]

Personally I think 'best of' ranking lists are meaningless. It's like having a vote for the 'best' song of all time.

[Glenn Spencer]

The world is a tough task. Aren't regional rankings better anyway? I have seen all the big boys, I am more interested in the courses that fall from 101-500 in the US and the world.

[Dan Kelly]

The last thing the world needs is another ranking of golf courses. IMO.

[Joel_Stewart]

I've heard through the grapevine that GOLF magazine may stop ranking the World Top 100. If that happens, perhaps GolfClubAtlas.com should pick up the task. After all, GOLF is currently the only such ranking of the world's best courses. And, in many respects, it would be a shame if such a ranking ceased.  

I can't imagine them doing this, I think your grapevine is not working.  What would the point be, their panelists are mostly international and its the magazines major difference between GD and GolfWeek.

[Tom Huckaby]

This has been proposed many times, and each time the view Dan Kelly just gave is the general consensus.

But I don't know... I can see it having some great value.  Of course we discuss the rating/ranking somewhat frequently in general, also... and the consensus there is magazine rankings suck because of regional biases, lack of full jurisdiction coverage/comparisons, cow-towing to courses in order to curry favor, etc.  It's been proposed many times that the best way to do a ranking would be a PAID ranking czar, or small group of such, who would be above all corruption.

Well now's the time to walk the walk.

I volunteer my services to be The Golf Club Atlas World Ranking Czar.  There are 1500 Discussion Group participants - each of you put up $200, and that ought to cover my expenses and pay me a salary that will keep my wife happy.  I will travel the world and see all courses that need be seen, devoting at least 260 days per year to this effort.  I will produce annual world rankings plus regional divisions, based on a methodology TBD.

Send your checks to:

Tom Huckaby
1434 Willowmont Ave.
San Jose, CA 95118

When I have 1000 takers, I will begin the effort.

 

[Mike_Sweeney]

When I have 1000 takers, I will begin the effort.

Huck,

When you get 51% here to agree on your first pick of Sand Hills as the #1 "greatest course in the world", I will then put up the $200 for #2-100.  

PS. I disagree with your pick of Sand Hills as the greatest course in the world.  

[Tom Huckaby]

Mike, the quest is on.  I just need 751 votes.  The campaign shall begin.

 

And your vote is duly noted.  I figured you wouldn't make this easy for me.

TH

[Bob Jenkins]

Tom,

That amount of money would not get you out of California. Maybe you can get a federal research grant to help out.

[Tom Huckaby]

Bob - I guess you're right.  OK, $200 per man here, plus another $300K in federal money.  That ought to do it.

 

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

This has been proposed many times, and each time the view Dan Kelly just gave is the general consensus.

But I don't know... I can see it having some great value.  Of course we discuss the rating/ranking somewhat frequently in general, also... and the consensus there is magazine rankings suck because of regional biases, lack of full jurisdiction coverage/comparisons, cow-towing to courses in order to curry favor, etc.  It's been proposed many times that the best way to do a ranking would be a PAID ranking czar, or small group of such, who would be above all corruption.

Well now's the time to walk the walk.

I volunteer my services to be The Golf Club Atlas World Ranking Czar.  There are 1500 Discussion Group participants - each of you put up $200, and that ought to cover my expenses and pay me a salary that will keep my wife happy.  I will travel the world and see all courses that need be seen, devoting at least 260 days per year to this effort.  I will produce annual world rankings plus regional divisions, based on a methodology TBD.

Send your checks to:

Tom Huckaby
1434 Willowmont Ave.
San Jose, CA 95118

When I have 1000 takers, I will begin the effort.

 

I'll do it for $185.

[Tom Huckaby]

Damn that fair bid process!

 

[Steve_Roths]

While it is very courageous of Huck to offer up his services like this I might have a better solution.

Perhaps we sweet talk Mr.Doak to create his W100 list and for a donation of say anywhere from $20 to $100 to a charity he disclose it privately to said contributors.  

[Bill Shamleffer]

Best song?  Stardust

[Tom Huckaby]

Steve - that actually is a hell of an idea.  I'd certainly be interested in a Doak Top 100, especially if since we'd agree to keep it confidential, he'd then agree to pull no punches, even about his own courses.

Put me in for a C-note for that.



TH

[Matt_Cohn]

This is impossible, but I'd like to see it done Sagarin-style. People can create a list of their favorite courses, or just compare courses one-on-one, and the whole thing would be fed into a program that creates a ranking based on "win/loss" records, records against the Top 25/50/100, etc.

If such a system existed, we could all vote, because we'd only have to play two courses up for consideration in order to cast a vote that counts for the rankings. Likewise, if you made a list of your 200 favorite courses in order, it would still establish a great win/loss record that would help determine the rankings.

Complicated, but fun.

[Rick Shefchik]

"Stardust" is a really good nomination.

So is Sand Hills.

[Cory Lewis]

I like Matt's idea, it is complicated but it would be interesting to see the results especially with a group like this.  I know there is a guy who does this type of list for both steel and wooden rollercoasters every year and he explains the way he does it, and the results are very accuarate in terms of identfying the best rollercoasters.  So I know it can be done.  I'm sure at least half the people on this board have a personal top 10, 25, 50 or 100 list.

[Tom_Doak]

The great Mr. Morrissett used to have his own personal ranking of the top courses from 1 to 100.  In fact, I have an early printed version of that list somewhere, but I won't share since it was so long ago that High Pointe was my only representation.

To anyone who is seriously thinking about following suit, I suggest you try it for an exercise yourself -- just TRY to rank the top 50 or 100 or 200 courses you've played in an exact order.  Then put it away for a month and look at it again and see how much you disagree with YOUR OWN list.

I did the best I could - 10's, 9's, 8's etc.  I don't think my trying to match up Royal Dornoch v. Merion would come to any meaningful conclusion.  Sure, there are some 7's that are closer to an 8 and some 7's that are closer to a 6 ... but I might just as easily change my mind if I played them again.

By the way, you can't keep this too simple -- if you're going to do it you have to rank every course which any other panelist might put in his top 100.  Otherwise, some guy who votes for Quail Crossing over Medinah is going to place it way too high, unless others have put it in its proper place.

And one more note:  whoever has seen the most courses is going to have the most influence on the results.

[Tom Huckaby]

Ran's Dad had a Top 100 ranking?  Now that I'd like to see.

You can't mean RAN by that, can you?

As for the rest - very sage, very wise.

TH