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PThomas

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Re:Nominations for most overrated, disappointing experiences
« Reply #50 on: February 01, 2007, 04:43:06 PM »
Too many to mention

cmon Cary, give us a few ;)
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Doug Wright

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Re:Nominations for most overrated, disappointing experiences
« Reply #51 on: February 01, 2007, 04:50:18 PM »
It's been over 25 years since I played it but Kemper Lakes came across to me this way. At the time it was very highly regarded and I came away thinking it was good but disappointing.

I'm also very surprised at the Muirfield comments above. Are you sure you're not thinking of Muirfield VILLAGE?  ;D Muirfield is understated but not overrated in my opinion. In fact it's in my top 10 of courses I've played. Lundin Links across the firth was disappointing to me.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2007, 04:51:18 PM by Doug Wright »
Twitter: @Deneuchre

Greg Tallman

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Re:Nominations for most overrated, disappointing experiences
« Reply #52 on: February 01, 2007, 05:11:51 PM »
The most over-hyped experience I have had is going to Haig Point. It is just off from Hilton Head and you have to take a ferry. Unfortunately, the ferry ride is the most exciting part of the day. I cannot recall one single hole other than a good par five on the back nine. Rees Jones is the architect and it is supposed to be one of his best. It still may be in Golf Digest's top 100 courses - which makes you wonder. Maybe we played the wrong the course.

Bob, You'll be happy to know that the course is undergoing major revisions beginning this month I believe.

Chris Cupit

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Re:Nominations for most overrated, disappointing experiences
« Reply #53 on: February 01, 2007, 05:17:26 PM »
2.  Hawk's Ridge in Atlanta  (actually in Ball Ground about 1 1/2 hours from downtown).  Bob Cupp has described it as "Augusta National with hardwoods".  It's not.

Chris:

Can you elaborate?  I've talked to a couple of people who have played it, and all you ever seem to hear is how immaculate it is, how you can practice your putting on the tee boxes, etc.

I find this interesting, particularly as I've enjoyed playing other Cupp courses - Settindown Creek, The Plantation Course at Reynold's and his reno of Druid Hills.

I've not played or even seen Hawk's Ridge so I'd be interested in hearing more.

Andy

OK, here it goes.  

First I think to compare oneself with ANGC is silly.  I've played both and I really have no clue what he meant.  I can only assume he was referring to the conditioning.  BTW when people come back from HR and all they talk about is the fact that there are bent grass tees that you can putt on, I think that by itself speaks volumes about the lack of any architectural interest.

#1  You walk from the massive driving range and the tee shot is the same.  Uphill, bland, two distant aiming bunkers not remotely in play.  The bunkers help as otherwise the tee shot is so devoid of interest it is litereally like teeing off on a driving range.  The two bunkers and the fact that your ball isn't striped are the only clues you are off the range.  Second shot continues uphill.  Green is bland--pitched back to front, contained by some mounds.  There is a lone pine behind the green.  To show you where the priorities are here, around the base of the pine tree is a circular planting of pansies!
#2  Drive to immesnse bermuda grass farm.  Wall of mounding on the left and the fairway falls off to the right--bermuda moguls lead to the creek on the right.  Creek feeds pond by the green.  Stacked stone wall.  
#3  Described as "inspired by #12 at Augusta!  Water, stacked stone wall fronting green that is narrow and set at a slight angle to the line of play.  Other than the fact that there is no depth to the HR bunkers unlike ANGC and I don't remember any stacked stone fronting #12 at ANGC, it's a spitting image.
#4  Straight downhill par 5 with a tree in the middle of the fairway.  I hit a very good drive from the back tee and had a 7 iron for my second shot.  While I was in the absolute middle of the fairway (tee shot is competely blind over an "aiming bunker") the lone pine about 50 yards short of the green was in the way.  Creek along the right of the green.  (More stacked stone).  Very pretty but I am not sure what I would have done to lay-up if I didn't feel I could hit over the tree--putt down the right edge of the fairway, maybe a lob wedge and then another lob wedge??
#5  Par 3 I think.  This is where we putted on the tee box--whoooopee.
#6  Short par 4--driveable I guess.  Straight downhill, maybe 60 feet or more.  Creek in front and a very narow green.  I hit it in the fron bunker but I guess the play is a 7 iron and then a wedge.  
#7  Par 5 with a creek crossing at a 90 angle to the tee shot.  270 yard carry from the back tee!!!  If you cant go over you lay up way back and then slog your way up the rest of this uphill beauty.  I think this par 5 also had trees in the fairway messing with your second shot.  Green was actually very cool--one of my favorites on the course.  No bunkers in fron but the false fron and crowned green could leave you with a lot of really interesting chips.
#8  Good straight par 4--blind tee shot and a pretty second shot down the hill across the creek to a nice green nestled into the hillside--best par 4 on the front.
#9  With the fairways firm there is absolutely no way to keep a ball in this fairway that slopes from right to left.  You could stand on the right edge of the fairway, drop a ball from shoulder height and I bwet it reaches the left rough/trees!!  Second shot is blind to another cool green--a punchbowl kind of shape with the front falling away severly from the player.  Balls landing on the slope will scream to the back.  You must carry beyond this "reverse false front" to get the ball close--I like this green also.
#10  Nice hole--par 4
#11  Blah but OK.  However, like holes 2 and 11 another hole with a diagonal carry with the creek all along the right side.  For an immaculate course I remember seeing a huge ugly pipe right at the landing area (270 range).  Seemed odd that with all the $$$ spent, they missed this eyesore.
#12  Good, short par 3
#13  Blindsish downhill par 5.  Nice hole, enormous green--nice since you could reach the green with two good shots but most likely be left with a long/tough two putt for birdie
#14  Nice par 4 dog leg left.  One nitpick--several blind tee shots but on this hole they have placed a boulder on the top of the bunker to indicate the line.  Why?  It looks ridiculosley out of place and isn't even needed.
#15  Maybe one of the most artificial, gawd awful looking, contrived holes in the world.  There is a fake waterfall the "emerges" from back right of the green and flows into a pond fronting the green.  Looks like a rich homeowner's back yard.  
#16  OK downhill par 3
#17  long uphill dogleg left.  Green is very wide and very severe and completely blind over a very steep bunker.  I didn't mind it but some in the group hated it.
#18  Awful.  No where to hit the tee shot.  2 players in the group bounced their tee shots off the pump house on the right.  You can try and hit it among 8 or 10 fairway bunkers which is hard since the fairway slopes like #9 and even landing in the fairway means it could still roll into any one of the 10 or so bunkers.  Beautiful second shot with lake on the left but everything still goes hard right to left and away from the player.  I had a 4 iron second shot but the 12 handicap in the group layed up and then hit a (mediocre) 9 iron that easily landed on the front right third of the green and then rolled over and into the lake.  A little severe.

It is a beautiful course in immaculate shape.  But, it is for many GCA folks a nightmare of wall to wall mowed bermuda, raked pinestraw around the base of trees, annual plantings and flowering trees.... ???

PS  I like many holes at Settindown and have played in every Dogwood since 1994 except last years so I am familiar with Druid Hills as well.  IMO, Bob really dropped the ball there.  The two holes that he pretty much re-did (#6 and #15) are without a doubt the two worst holes on the course now.  The rest of the course is still a joy to play--lots of fun.

PPS  I haven't played the Reynolds course although I hear it's very good and I understand he helped consult with some tees at Peachtree and they are very happy with his work there as well.

Greg Tallman

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Re:Nominations for most overrated, disappointing experiences
« Reply #54 on: February 01, 2007, 05:20:29 PM »
Ran --Next time you are in the 18th fairway at Muirfield, look:a)  behind you at the Firth of Forthb)  back to the beautiful, natural 17th greenor c) ahead to the beautifully bunkered 18th green in front of the clubhouseAnd then be amazed at how many great golf holes they got out of a modestly contoured piece of property!My most disappointing:  Club de Golf del Uruguay.  I had hoped beyond hope that it would be the last undisturbed MacKenzie gem; but they blitzed the greens a few years ago, and the property wasn't really that exciting to begin with.  After a 7000 mile trip, that was a downer.

Tom, is it worth seeing if you are in the area or just as well to do something else? I'll likely be heading that way soon as my wife is from Uruguay and we are due for a visit.

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Nominations for most overrated, disappointing experiences
« Reply #55 on: February 01, 2007, 05:27:41 PM »
Patrick,

Have you ever played NCR or Coldstream?

Glenn,

Those courses are on may get to play list.
I've heard alot about them, but haven't seen them.

I"m a fan of Dick Wilson designs.
Sadly, Doral Blue has be altered


I am wondering how 'in tact' they are. NCR has been tinkered with. Coldstream hasn't changed in 20 years, don't know what happened before that.  

My first golf ranking book in 85 had Pine Tree ranked really high. Any idea what happened?

That's a good question.
At one time Pine Tree was in the top twenties, and, not much about the course has changed in the last 20 or so years.

Like most Florida courses, Pine Tree is relatively flat, and I think that's a rating no-no.

Pine Tree isn't flashy and there's nothing "fadish" about it.

It's just a solid golf course, so, I too am puzzled by it dropping 70 slots or more.

When I compare it to some of the courses with better rankings, I'm even more puzzled.

Perhaps the quality/ability of the raters has diminished in the last 20 years  ;D



Greg Tallman

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Re:Nominations for most overrated, disappointing experiences
« Reply #56 on: February 01, 2007, 05:29:52 PM »
I'll have to add one more to the two noted on the other thread of similar topic:

Mid Ocean
Oakmont
and the new one
Long Cove

All good courses but all failed to meet the expectations that were admittedly high.

Lloyd_Cole

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Re:Nominations for most overrated, disappointing experiences
« Reply #57 on: February 01, 2007, 06:08:28 PM »
a couple of the old posts mentioned Doral ...I also had a disappointing experience there...got the impression they just wanted my money, a not inconsequential sum I might add

Worst place I've ever been for golf. Even worse than Sawgrass, and that is saying something...

Greg Tallman

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Re:Nominations for most overrated, disappointing experiences
« Reply #58 on: February 01, 2007, 06:11:03 PM »
a couple of the old posts mentioned Doral ...I also had a disappointing experience there...got the impression they just wanted my money, a not inconsequential sum I might add

Worst place I've ever been for golf. Even worse than Sawgrass, and that is saying something...

Lloyd - What in particular gave you tht impression at Doral?

Lloyd_Cole

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Re:Nominations for most overrated, disappointing experiences
« Reply #59 on: February 01, 2007, 06:35:24 PM »
a couple of the old posts mentioned Doral ...I also had a disappointing experience there...got the impression they just wanted my money, a not inconsequential sum I might add

Worst place I've ever been for golf. Even worse than Sawgrass, and that is saying something...

Lloyd - What in particular gave you tht impression at Doral?

The fact that the TV camera structures were not removed for the other 51 weeks. The course was as dull as a 'strong' course could possibly be. The resort hotel was the closest I've been to a MacDonald's in golf.
It felt like the kind of place you'd meet Tony Soprano, because it was 'classy'. In short - everything.
I might add that only other course I saw on the visit was Hidden Creek. The juxtaposition of the two experiences was really telling.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2007, 06:39:11 PM by Lloyd_Cole »

Glenn Spencer

Re:Nominations for most overrated, disappointing experiences
« Reply #60 on: February 01, 2007, 06:42:45 PM »
Patrick,

Maybe you are right. ;D Rater quality on the downslide. I read that book day in and day out wanting to play some of the courses. Knew it like the back of my hand. They way the ratings have gone, I would have thought Pine Tree was either blown up or changed drastically. I am sure that you are even more puzzled. If you are ever faced with the choice between NCR and Coldstream. I highly recommend you go with NCR. It has been tinkered with, as far as tree removal and something was done with the sand in the bunkers, but the design hasn't changed an inch since I started playing it 18 years or so ago. They did add some tees, but only about 10 yards per hole and no angles of tees. The way you speak of Pine Tree reminds me a lot of NCR. Just REAL solid.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2007, 06:43:41 PM by Glenn Spencer »

Glenn Spencer

Re:Nominations for most overrated, disappointing experiences
« Reply #61 on: February 01, 2007, 06:48:03 PM »
Wow!! Doral is taking a really big punch. I didn't think it was all THAT bad, of course I didn't expect a GREAT golf course in the middle of downtown Miami either. I guess it is a little overrated, but I have been to courses that were worse in that category. 11,12 and 13 seemed like the best holes on the golf course to me.

Greg Tallman

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Re:Nominations for most overrated, disappointing experiences
« Reply #62 on: February 01, 2007, 07:32:56 PM »
a couple of the old posts mentioned Doral ...I also had a disappointing experience there...got the impression they just wanted my money, a not inconsequential sum I might add

Worst place I've ever been for golf. Even worse than Sawgrass, and that is saying something...

Lloyd - What in particular gave you tht impression at Doral?

The fact that the TV camera structures were not removed for the other 51 weeks. The course was as dull as a 'strong' course could possibly be. The resort hotel was the closest I've been to a MacDonald's in golf.
It felt like the kind of place you'd meet Tony Soprano, because it was 'classy'. In short - everything.
I might add that only other course I saw on the visit was Hidden Creek. The juxtaposition of the two experiences was really telling.

Thanks for responding... not sure how the reply matches the "just want your money" assertion but I'll take it that you took away no positives from your visit. Based on your quote I thought you may have had a bad experience with the staff or something along those lines.  

Then again having permanent camera structures could be interpreted as greed as closing the course to set these up on an annual would likely cost the resort the better part of a million dollars each year all things considered.

Lloyd_Cole

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Re:Nominations for most overrated, disappointing experiences
« Reply #63 on: February 01, 2007, 08:04:36 PM »
a couple of the old posts mentioned Doral ...I also had a disappointing experience there...got the impression they just wanted my money, a not inconsequential sum I might add

Worst place I've ever been for golf. Even worse than Sawgrass, and that is saying something...

Lloyd - What in particular gave you tht impression at Doral?

The fact that the TV camera structures were not removed for the other 51 weeks. The course was as dull as a 'strong' course could possibly be. The resort hotel was the closest I've been to a MacDonald's in golf.
It felt like the kind of place you'd meet Tony Soprano, because it was 'classy'. In short - everything.
I might add that only other course I saw on the visit was Hidden Creek. The juxtaposition of the two experiences was really telling.

Thanks for responding... not sure how the reply matches the "just want your money" assertion but I'll take it that you took away no positives from your visit. Based on your quote I thought you may have had a bad experience with the staff or something along those lines.  

Then again having permanent camera structures could be interpreted as greed as closing the course to set these up on an annual would likely cost the resort the better part of a million dollars each year all things considered.

Greg
The thread is for most overrated and disappointing. I'm not suggesting it is a terrible place. For me it is, maybe, but many would be happy there. Disappointing is what it was. Very much so.
When I went to Doral, I'd not read any GCA (it must have been around 1992), and the fact that the Blue course held a PGA event which generally attracted a strong field meant that my anticipation was quite high. I now know that that is no reason for excitement..  I had visited Pinehurst, Pebble and Sea Island prior to the trip and I'd had good or excellent experiences at all these places, the price structure at Doral was comparable to the other 'top' East Coast resorts, so the lack of anything at all that could be called even special at Doral hit me pretty hard.

Matt MacIver

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Re:Nominations for most overrated, disappointing experiences
« Reply #64 on: February 01, 2007, 08:31:22 PM »

Even worse than Sawgrass, and that is saying something...

I have to agree.  I went to Sawgrass with massive expectations and was severely let down.  But upon reflection what really chaffed me was 1) the price; 2) the conditioning (TERRIBLE for a "5th major" venue); and 3) the front nine.  

But I still like a few holes on the front, and would love to tackle 11-12 and 16-17-18 again, really really liked those holes.

M. Shea Sweeney

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Re:Nominations for most overrated, disappointing experiences
« Reply #65 on: February 02, 2007, 12:45:54 AM »
Matt-

When was the last time you played at Sawgrass?

I felt a bit let down the first time I played it, but the second time I liked the golf course alot better. It really has some good fun holes.

As for your conditioning commment. I played the course Jan 05 and Jan 06--both times the conditioning was just fine if not great. They have done quite of bit of work there and I opted to skip Sawgrass this January and was happy with my decision. Had some friends play the course and they said it was not in the best shape.

So give it a chance an play again.

Ed-

I will comment on my Friars Head issue soon.