[Neal Gemeri]

Tom Fazio is my favorite architect because he courses are visually appealling with no hard edges and yet are playable as well. Why don't you feature more of his work? He has been voted best architect numerous years.

[Ted_Sturges]

Neal,  What courses of Mr. Fazio's do you like and what about them appeal to you.  I would like to learn more about why you think he is the best (besides the fact that "he has been voted best architect numerous years").

[Tony Dowling]

Similar to the point I made aout Pete Dye, nobody downhere in Oz has ever played a course by Tom Fazio - he has no profile in this part of the world, nor am I aware of any of his work in Europe.I think we are just as well off if the Yank designers stay home because Jack Nicklaus' efforts here have been mediocre at best.

[Clark]

Based on the few courses of his I have played, Fazio is overrated.  Hartefeld national is terrible.  Yes, the bunkering is pretty, but that's it.  A bigger mystery is the appeal of the Old North State Club in NC -- with only a few exceptions, the first 15 holes are all throw-aways.  The club must be teating the guest panelists like kings to receive such favorable comments and rankings.I must admit that courses such as World Woods, Wade Hampton and Shadow Creek look awfully good, and I would like to play them very much.  Black Diamond has to be overrated as well -- I've never seen/heard anything about the holes not in the quarry.

[Neal Gemeri]

My favorite Tom Fazio courses are the Pine Barrens course at World Woods and Wade Hampton. At Pine Barrens, Fazio gives the player super wide fairways and plenty of options. I drove the 15th green (a par four), accepting the risk of going  straight for the green. I look forward to playing that hole each year. Also, the 4th hole is another example of a legitimate risk/reward hole. Just like at Wade, I cannot imagine an architect doing a better job with the land. I have never played Pine Valley, but Pine Barrens will do me just fine each winter.I have played other courses of his in the Carolinas and Forest Creek near Pinehurst, NC would be my next favourite. It isn't as dramatic as Wade or PB but the course moves nicely along. Each hole is well designed and solid - there are no bad holes. Michael Jordan liked the course enough to buy a house there. On top of those courses, Fazio has done other excellent courses which I have not played: Shadow Creek in Las Vegas and Black Diamond near World Woods in Florida. Any architect who has those courses to his credit must be considered the best going.

[Ran Morrissett]

Neal, You have hit the nail on the head with Tom Fazio. His work from late 1980s to 1993/4 produced real winners of undeniable character, both in terms of quality and originality. He had less projects going on and personally did each one properly. Then it looks to me like he sold out - he took on too many projects and spread himself thin. All the courses of his since 1995 are  perfectly fine - but uninspired - courses.Did this happen to MacKenzie, Tillinghast, Flynn, Thomas? The answer is no. Fazio seems to paralell Ross more. Ross's  name appears on a lot of courses (mostly he never visited) that are indifferent. Of course, Ross's 4/5 best are indeed world class but the Ross name on a course DOES NOT guarantee a course of quality. So where does that put Fazio? Presently, it puts him with a lot of money in the bank but I wonder if the fun has gone out of it for him as he manages a big business that stamps out similar courses, one after the other.

[Robert Adams]

Carrying on from Ran's comments, having posted the wins early in his carreer, there is no doubt that Fazio's recent works all get massively overrated. Forest Creek and the Old North State Club in North Carloina are not worthy of a second round and yet in Golf Week's February rankings, the former was in the top 25 modern courses in the US and the later was still in the top 100. That is a joke, all based on the unwarranted clout that Fazio's name carries at this moment. Good luck to developers who pay his massive fee - the course they get won't support it.

[Neal Gemeri]

So what if he is not doing his best work right this moment? Fazio already has contributed 5/6 courses that will "stand the test of time" and that's as many or more than anybody else practising course design today.Besides, I understand his new course in Indiana  may be one of his best yet.

[JamieS]

While I was burrowing around the bowels of the GCA archives, I stumbled across this "gem" of a post, and had to regurgitate it to the top, just to stir up the pot a bit.Boy...would the current class of characters had a ball with good ole' Neal."visually appealing with no hard edges"...what the heck is wrong with hard edges?Enjoy this classic!

[Paul_Daley]

Tony Dowling:Tony old chap, go easy on the US designers, you wouldn't want them to think you are lumping them all in the same basket! "Ohio Fats" has carried out some regrettable workin Australia, but don't get a set against the whole US fraternity. Tom Doak has devised an ingenious routing for Barnbougle Dunes, and when a little red-tape is cleared, you will see the evidence yourself. Tom Fazio may not have even heard of Australia; perhaps if he has, his design fee would probably count him out - not to mention our woeful exchange currency rate.Neal:Give me hard edges every time. Too much is made of symmetry - things nice and neat. Run it wild.

[Aaron]

I agree, no hard edges, true, but in nature do we not see some hard edges? I mean, I think you need to incorporate both.As for Fazio, there is no doubt that his courses are appealing to the eye...but I often question the strategic merit in his courses. I think his views on design are a little scewed, and I do not totally agree with what he practices (pumping out courses like there is no tomorrow).In my honest opnion, although he has brought some good work to the table (Pine Barrens I love) overall he is not that good. Nothing to cutting edge and nothing that I find amazing, or even benefitting architecture. Plus, how many waterfalls can one man take?I think Mr. Fazio would be best to take a page out of his once apprentice, Mike Strantz. For two reasons really, first Strantz is cutting edge and brings better appearence to his courses than Fazio,a nd also, behind all the controversy, Strantz imploys some classic hole principles. Fazio's courses seem to be of the cookie cutter variety now a days.Aaron

[API]

This just in:Tom Fazio named as consulting architect to Royal MelbourneAPI Melbourne, Australia-Historic Royal Melbourne Golf Club has announced in agreement with Tom Fazio Designs of Hendersonville, North Carolina, USA to oversee restoration of Royal Melbourne's famed East and West courses.I'm thrilled to be accepting the challenges overseas and world wide, so why not in Australia?" said Fazio. "I can't think of a club I want to work with more then this one. It has so much history and tradition. When I'm finished, it may be one of my best designs ever."Plans announced during the two hour press conference that featured entertainment from Aussie outback bush comedian-Dickie Greenbark centered around the much heralded RMGC Composite course.Fazio commented, "I have some things planned in my mind, and they center around more framing and less bunkering that seems to be wreeking havoc on many a golf round of the esteemed members of this great club. I know we can eleviate a lot of these problems by simply pushing bunkers back and out of play.""More deception can be acheived by adding riparian streams and creeks which will be artificially constructed, but look like they have been there for years. I can hardly wait to get it going" sounded the master of modern golf design known for his original designs at Merion Golf Club, Oakmont Country Club and Riviera Country Club in the United States.Fazio has further prescribed more water hazards to a design that is severely lacking in them. "I can't think of a better landscape to work with and there is just no water to capitalize with in the design. Sure, the existing course is good, but I think we can give them much better." He added further, "Ironically, this place reminds me so much of Shadow Creek. (Las Vegas, Nevada, USA) I have told the membership I can bring that element to them here in Australia, and they have obliged me with a handsome sum....I mean budget."

[Tim_Weiman]

Neal:I'm not exactly sure what you're looking for.Tom Fazio, it might be argued, gets more attention than any architect on this site.An architect like Tillinghast has a number of courses that have "stood the test of time", but it sure seems like he gets a lot less attention here than Fazio.What about a modern guy like Robert Trent Jones?  Despite all his work, he too gets alot less attention than Fazio.For that matter, doesn't it seem that guys like Crenshaw and Coore don't get the volume of press that Fazio does here?Maybe if Tommy N could tell us what he doesn't like about Tillinghast, RTJ or C&C, we'd get more balance in the volume of commentary about different architects.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Tim, There isn't much to dislike about Tillie. IN fact, I find almost everything Ihave seen of his perfect.Robert Trent Jones? The 1960's version of Tom Fazio. Now I can find lots of things wrong with him. How many great classics has RTJ destoryed just so he could leave his mark?Bunkering shapes that look as if they have been stolen from some resort swimming pool with all of the ridiculous capes and bays that don't make much sense as far as there setting to the holes which are usually strategic three or fours times a round.Founder of the third school of golf architecture? Pick up any of the classic books that MacKenzie, Colt & Alison and others have published well before RTJ was even thinking golf courses, and they will describe a school of the heroic that far preceeds anything Robert Trent Jones could have ever even thought of.I'll stand by my beliefs that RTJ is the most over-rated golf architect of all time. But Tom Fazio is a very close second.Now I'm sure I'll get Adam Clayton all turned up on this one when consdiering his beloved Spyglass, but after four holes, what happens to that course?As mentioned before, I think Tom Fazio is going for RTJ-status and is going to step on any classic design that gets in his way. Now Tim, why don't you tell me what you don't like about Tillie?

[Paul_Daley]

API:Phew ... you really had us going there for a moment with that joke.

[JamieS]

Tim, Paul, Guys...Guys...Look at the date of the original post by Neal(1999). I brought this to the top just to tweak a few folks. I don't think Neal will be answering any time soon.

[TEPaul]

Scared me there for a moment, JamieS!And now..You can go to your room!

[Paul_Daley]

JamieS:A lesson learned. I never even look at those things, like dates ... One assumes everything is current - big mistake!

[Tim_Weiman]

Paul Daley:API's Royal Melbourne news flash was cute, but I didn't question for a moment that RM members are far too smart for that!Tommy N:Sorry, I can't say anything bad about Tillie.  I was just hoping you could, so we could get off Fazio.  You didn't take my bait on C&C either.  Be careful. I'm hearing API has the inside scoop on condos going in at Sand Hills so all of Ben Crenshaw's friends can wake up on his course every morning.Anyway, you took the easy way out and took a poke at RTJ....nobody will remember that........and you went right back to Fazio.I think it is time you came clean and admitted you're on the Fazio payroll....something to do with getting his name out there....some folks call it marketing.JamieS:No, I sure didn't notice the date of the original post.  I just seemed timeless.

[Paul_Daley]

Tim:Yeah, you're right. The RMGC members are pretty astute, but not immune to passing the odd controversial thing. Currently, the big noise is its $7,000,000 clubhouse upgrade taking place after the Heinekkan Classic in January.  

[aclayman]

Tommy, that's Powell to you!   I do appreciate Spyglass and am well aware of its shortcomings. Even though I've seen limited rtj courses, I would wager it's up there with one of his best.Knowing what I know about the size of the budget, I wonder if the minamalist practices, so emulated by this forum, weren't used for Spyglass's construction. Especially, since all the recent tweaking (establishing) of good drainage for the parkland holes. The type of rtj, or anybodies, courses I don't care for can usually be sumarized as resort type flat, straight away, bunker left bunker right yawner. I assume most of the crap that DR designed would be of a similar nature?  cento uno aniadam

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Adam,Sorry for the slight error there. I'll try to never let it happen again! There is little doubt in my mind that the first four holes at Spyglass are RTJ's greatest work ever. Such a canvas!

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