Having trouble with the RATINGS ? There's a reason

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike Cirba,

As I have said, and as Ken Bakst has reminded us,
You only know what I write, not what I think.  

Bandon may be in the cards for me this spring or summer.

If my list could have gone to 20 Friar's Head would be included, as would Boca Rio.

[Paul_Turner]

Patrick

Here's my lot:

Rye:  The ultimate course to test your control in wind, since nearly every hole is routed across the prevailing wind to some degree.  Always dry.

Pine Valley:  More relentlessly great holes than any other I've played, just one after another, after another.  Great test of putting too.

Swinley Forest- Short is beautiful, and no less of a test; the best heath course and greatest selection of par 3s.  Plus it's old Harry's!

Sandwich- Ultimate driving test.  Bleak.  

TOC-  Got to have one muni!

Pacific Dunes-  The most beautiful course in the world?  Fits the "mood swing" bill.  Complex fairway contours on many holes and a varied mix of green complexes.

Brancaster-  Feels like the end of the world with huge horizon views.  Sleepered bunkers galore, no other course has a similar feel, a museum piece.  Plus my fave hole, the 8th.

Dornoch- For the greensites and their approach options, and of course its vistas.

County Down-The most beautiful course in the world?  Many unique holes that don't fit any mould.

Royal Worlington- To get away from the spectacular and beautiful.  Subtlety.



 


  

[Mike_Cirba]

Patrick;

I hope you're able to get out there...I'm sure you'll have a blast, and the Bandon Dunes course is wonderful, as well.  What a great combination of courses!

As far as Boca Rio, it has to be one of the coolest places to play that nobody's ever heard of.  I'm hoping to play Pine Tree in two months while in the area, and I'll be pleasantly surprised if it's as good as Boca Rio.

As far as my own top 10 that I'd play, I'd rather defer, or perhaps list some of the more enjoyable little known courses I've played.  I'll think about it.  

[mike_beene]

Old Course  ,Muirfield, Kingsbarns ,Bel-Air ,Pinehurst#2 ,Turnberry,Pebble ,Carnoustie,Planation,          Lakewood(my home course which I enjoy as much as the others as strange as that seems)

[ForkaB]

Great concept, Pat.  MaKes you think about what is really important in golf, and in life......

First, my 2nd 10, and why they didn't make the final cut:

Cypress Point--my top 10 is already overloaded with posh, exclusive clubs, and with short courses, and if I have to choose one course to play in the 17-mile drive, well, CPC just ain't the best....

Sandwich--similar problem, partially in reverse.  If I'm going to add a posh, exclusive club in the south of England, Sandwich is 2nd best

Ballybunion/Royal County Down--I can allow for only one Irish course, and much as I love the hinterlands, I also need some venues that are near great cities.  Dublin is a place to be.

Prairie Dunes--played it once and absolutely loved it, but I'm not going to spend 10% of the rest of my life in Kansas

Merion--great course, but it will not be that long before I will be unable to make the carry from the back tee on 18, and I do not want to spend the rest of my life playing from the forward tees.

Olympic/SFGC--hard, hard choices to make, but I've got enough fog and mist to contend with in my Scottish contingent, so they must go

Turnberry--where I popped my cherry on links courses, but too remote and too yuppified now to be of the greatest pleasure.

Stanford--lots of memories and a very good golf course, but better and more substantive memories at better courses listed below.

Given all this, the list, in alphabetical order:

1.  Dornoch--my home course
2.  Muirfield--great golf, and still a loveable sociological time warp
3.  NGLA--another time warp, and a course that I really do want to play again, and again
4.  Painswick--size isn't everything....
5.  Pebble Beach--THE "test of golf" on the Monterrey Peninsula, or perhaps even on the world...
6.  Portmarnock--as good as Ballybunion or County Down, but in the middle of civilisation
7.  Rye--the NGLA of little England.  A golfer's course.
8.  Shinnecock Hills--Pebble Beach East.  Unrelenting questions about your game and your character.
9.  St. Jean de Monts--I can't imagine a future life that did not include France.  A very good course in a refreshingly low key area.
10. Winchester--where my parents met and I played my first proper round of golf.  The home course of my previous life.

[Mike_Sweeney]

Car/Ferry Courses

National
Shinnecock
Maidstone
Merion
Yale
Winged Foot East (assuming I could sneak in a few holes on the West during my visits)

Plane Courses

Pasatiempo for my West Coast course, but I hope/expect to replace that this year

Sand Hills
Carne Golf Links - need at least 1 Irish club
Mid-Ocean Club - Bermuda gives it a big help here and it may get replaced this year by a Southern U.S. course.

[John Foley]

Sand Hills
Kiahawa-Ocean
Pinehurst #2
Bandon
Pine Needles
Wildhorse
TPC Sawgrass
Medalist
World Woods-Pine Barrens
Links @ Hiawatha Landing

[John_Lovito]

Shinnecock – My all time favorite
NGLA – As good as it gets
Pebble Beach – Great course with great views
Plainfield – My backyard
Ocean Course – Great course at my favorite vacation destination
WFW – First great course I ever played
Sand Hills – Runner-up to Shinny
Ballybunion – First taste of golf overseas
Cruden Bay – Just plain fun to play
Dyker Beach – Can’t leave out the first course I ever played

[wsmorrison]

In no particular order:

Shinnecock Hills
Pine Valley
Merion
Royal Dornoch always with my elder son David
The Country Club
The Old Course at least once with Tom Paul at the home of golf
Sand Hills
Kittanset
Prestwick, Bob Crosby can meet me at the first tee anytime and a pint or more afterwards

I would add Charles River if I can drink beer with Ed Baker and David Miller after every round

[THuckaby2]

I look at Rich Goodale's list and it is so logical, such great sense... but jeez, I thought the assumption was geography and logic didn't matter here! That is, travel and location wasn't part of the equation, just the 10 courses one would most enjoy playing, in rotation, forever, with no real life considerations, time spent around there, etc. counting at all.... Taken in that light my list would change.  I'd want to be near family and friends more, I'd want 10% of my time in other places just as you add that course in France...  Interesting.  I guess my bad for taking this as a complete flight of fancy!

So to that end, it changes thusly:

Cypress Point
NGLA
Sand Hills
these three stay no matter how I do this.

Shinnnecock Hills
This stays only because I'd enjoy spending that much more time in Southhampton area, because it is such a great "counterpoint" to NGLA, and because it is the greatest "test of golf" I have ever faced.  One needs a game assessment now and then...

Pebble Beach
West coast counterpart to Shinnecock in a way, as Rich says, and I have so many personal memories there... it will be on any list I make forever.

Royal County Down - GONE.  If I can only have one course in Ireland, it's gonna be in the Republic.  So this gets replaced by Ballybunion.  I'll play the Old and then cheat and sneak over and play the Cashen as well.

Royal Dornoch
The Old Course
Cruden Bay
Sorry, if time spent is an issue, then I'm only going to have one course in Scotland as well... and as much as I have fun playing at Cruden Bay and enjoy the feeling and study of the Old Course, it's gonna be Royal Dornoch.  It's Rich's home, but for us visitors, it's not hard to FEEL at home there... and it is beyond question such a damn great golf course by any measure, I'd be very happy spending a LOT of time playing it.  I could also actually play it and not have to battle thousands of tourists for tee times...

Rustic Canyon.
This is strangely kept.... I'd want a SoCal course, it is my childhood home and 90% of my relatives still live in and around the area... and somehow I feel I just "fit" better at a low-key public course like this than at LACC or Rivieria or Bel-Air or something.  I also feel like I'd never get tired of playing it....Tommy Naccarato and David Moriarty likely need to be revived from their fainting upon reading this.

So that leaves me with two open spots....

I do love nice weather.  So I'd have to add a course somewhere near Hawaii... Make it Kapalua Plantation and I'll be a happy camper.

One more.... the more I think about it, the more this is based on non-golf course concerns, the more I'd petition the golf gods to leave #10 open for me.  I just love seeing new courses too much to be restricted to any finite number.  If dreams are being made to come true, then let's go the whole nine yards and allow me #10 as anywhere my Dad wants to play, any time.

TH

[Holyhead_ferry_1]

Gentlemen!
Unfortunately golf course rating is a necessary evil for all golf architects. Raters, god bless em! have their opinion, they play a course at a particular time when the condition is assumed to be right for their respective visits.
An architect like myself has to endure critisium from all corners and be tough about some of the rubbish thats quoted by the so called experts on design. these experts have no idea of the constraints put on that particular design by the client, DEP or Corp of Engineers etc. To make or break a reputation on a stroke of a  pencil or pen is sad to say the least.
The top 100 golf ratings buy Golf Digest is like a roller coaster and inspite of what people  publicly profess, we in the architects business know its a farce, its all about money today and the spirit of what golf courses are all about is TV ratings and rounds played not Architecture development.
Regards
Ian

[THuckaby2]

You'll get nothing but concurrence from me, Ian.  I've said on other threads here that there ought to be a separate rating for "achievements in golf course architecture" and all the obstacles you face would be part of the assessment. Keep up the good work and try not to let these magazine ratings get you down - sounds like you have that part well in hand!

TH

[GeoffreyC]

If I had only 10 places to play again in rotation these would suit me just fine.

In my neck of the woods within easy driving distance for a day trip there would be.

1- Pine Valley (Paul called it.  Simply the best)
      
2- National Golf Links of America (probably where I would spend the most time.  Its what my home course, Yale, should strive for but unfortunately misses the mark).
      
3- Shinnecock Hills      (nice to be humbled every so often and what a place for it!)

4- Friars Head (simply a great place/facility for members with a great golf course I could play over and over.  Also, it looks like what Cypress should look like!)

Outside my immediate neighborhood

5- Cypress Point (I disagree with Rich here- I'd play Cypress over Pebble any time and I'd choose the same great group of guys to play with again)

6- Sand Hills (Like Pat the theme of my tastes is links or links-like courses with wind).  Sand hills is a magical place and the thought of never playing it again is too much to ever consider leaving it off such a list.
      
7- Royal Portrush or Royal Dornoch - I must have a Scottish or Irish links on my list and I don't want to choose between these two.

8- Pacific Dunes - I just got back from a trip to PD/BD and it exceeded my expectations.  Lots was said here about it recently.  I want to return!
 
9- Prairie Dunes- The links theme continues.  This course has enough unique qualities for shotmaking, short game and putting that I keep it on my list above some others.  Paul Turner- How can you keep this off your list?  I hear Bill Coore is working on some fairways and creating chipping areas that can only improve things.

10- Seminole GC- got to have a warm weather location for winter play.  What's better then Seminole GC? None I can think of?  

[THuckaby2]

That is one hell of a great list, GC.  I'd trade mine for yours in a heartbeat, maybe making sure I kept a SoCal course just for family ties... at any rate I just gotta get to a few of those on yours that I haven't seen before too long!

BTW, the last group I played Cypress with was a bunch of dorks... who were those guys getting beaten down with me by what Mr. Huntley called a "stiff breeze"?  

I'd happily add Pacific Dunes as my #10 also - great call there - and again I'd cheat and sneak over to Bandon Dunes while the golf gods weren't looking!

TH

[Holyhead_ferry_1]

I know all about ferry courses my home town in Wales is Holyhead and for years I, through my fathers connections played on many Irish courses from Blackrock,Portmarnock, Royal Dublin the list is endless. I as a Welsh man would strongly advise the golf course  conisour to take a trip to Wales, the golf courses are spectactular and there's the golf history too. For instance Nefyn(1911) on the LLyn penisular has a golf hole similar to the 18th at Pebble Beach Alistair Mac Kenzie visited there on his travels with Harry Colt, and it is rumoured that the Idea for the hole at Pebble came from Nefyn. So guys I'll write to our Architecture gurru and submit a paper for you to read on how golf developed in the U. K., the story the books don't tell you.
Regards
Ian

Car/Ferry Courses

National
Shinnecock
Maidstone
Merion
Yale
Winged Foot East (assuming I could sneak in a few holes on the West during my visits)

Plane Courses

Pasatiempo for my West Coast course, but I hope/expect to replace that this year

Sand Hills
Carne Golf Links - need at least 1 Irish club
Mid-Ocean Club - Bermuda gives it a big help here and it may get replaced this year by a Southern U.S. course.

[Bob Montle]

(bump)

FUN courses

Group A
Fraserburgh
TOC
Machrihanish

Group B
Dismal White
Shiskine
N Berwick (west)

Group C
Brora
TNC
Elie

Group D (Deceased)
West Shore (Mich)

[John Emerson]

Heritage Hill (*sentimental choice-love this course even though it’s in a housing community)
TOC
Pasatiempo
Cruden Bay
Crail
Kilspindie
Prestwick
North Berwick
Shoreacres
Idle Hour

[Bill Shamleffer]

NGLA
Cypress Point
St Andrews Old
St Andrews New
North Berwick
Dornoch
Royal County Down
Lahinch
Swinley Forest
Sunningdale Old

[Sean Leary]

NGLA
Sand Hills

Cypress Point
Lahinch
Pebble Beach
Dornoch
Maidstone
Walton Heath
LACC North
Gozzer Ranch

[Tom_Doak]

Gentlemen!
Unfortunately golf course rating is a necessary evil for all golf architects. Raters, god bless em! have their opinion, they play a course at a particular time when the condition is assumed to be right for their respective visits.
An architect like myself has to endure critisium from all corners and be tough about some of the rubbish thats quoted by the so called experts on design.

Regards
Ian

Was that the famous architect, Ian Scott-Taylor !?!

[Ira Fishman]

Lahinch
CPC
North Berwick
PH2
Woking
Golspie
St.George’s Hill
Primland
Mid Pines
Elie


Ira

[Terry Lavin]

Sand Hills
Cypress Point
Pacific Dunes
LACC North
Olympia Fields North
Shoreacres
Chicago Golf Club
Beverly
Prairie Dunes
Old Macdonald

[mike_beene]

This thread is from 17 years ago. Time flies.

[Terry Lavin]

This thread is from 17 years ago. Time flies.

Especially if someone else is “serving it.”

[Daryl David]

NGLA
St. Enodoc
Shoreacres
Philly Cricket
Tara Iti
De Pan
Swinley Forest
Cypress Point
Arrowtown
Kingston Heath