I apologize to those who don't like the multi-quoting. It's just what I do, and how I've always used forums. The alternative - making separate posts for each response - never seemed "better" to me than making one post. Though it may not seem like it, I do try to be brief, and quote only the relevant parts.
I'll stick with the R & D guy I spent a day with, who definitely had "degrees in the sciences."
I appreciate that, but I'm likewise going to stick with the people within the industry that I know, just as you are sticking with your guy.
IMO the equipment is in a bit of a corner right now with the rules coming at them from one angle, and the laws of physics coming at them from another angle. Balls can only go so fast, driver faces can only get so hot (and pros hit the center more often than not, hence the "advances" made by the Callaway Epic, which didn't do much for good players but helped single digit guys a fair amount), and you can plug in launch characteristics all day into flight simulators and see theoretical distances, too. I don't foresee the very slow trend of PGA Tour players continuing unless they simply swing faster. (Which, given how they often use a 44" or 44.5" driver, is quite possible.)
Consider the PGA Tour numbers at the bottom, too: only 2-4 yards gained in the last 10 years, despite players swinging 1-4 MPH faster than they did ten years ago.
If they just released something all at once, it wouldn't be too long before their competitors started anticipating the expiration of the patent, and just flat-out copied it, knowing it would be moot by the time it got through the court system.
I don't understand that bit. Patents are good for, what, almost 20 years? What golf equipment company wants to be even ten years behind? And even if a patent lapses, you're still liable and would have to pay damages for breaking the patent when it was valid. I suppose if the patent is super broad, and can be applied with updated new tech you might start to see copies a year or two out from a patent expiration, but that's still 15+ years later, no?
To your last comment, Tom, I think 2-3 years might even be on the short side. The PING G30 driver with the Turbulators was being worked on in the late 2000s (released in 2014, I think?), for example.
I wish the pros today played with the equipment from the 1980s (persimmon, heavy steel shafts, balls). I think fitness and technique have increased the swing speed of the average tour player, but the best 30 years ago were as good as the best today. The ball is not the only culprit, but I don't think the USGA would dream of bringing back the old clubs in addition to reduced distance balls.
That doesn't track for me. The best athletes in every other sport have gotten bigger, faster, stronger - in every other sport - except in golf? I don't buy it.
I was reading the GD Hot List, and one of the big brands now has a 6 iron with 26 degrees of loft. I thought: wasn't that almost called a 4 iron not too long ago?
Feels off topic to me (a bit) so I'll try to keep it short… as you likely know there's more to launch conditions than loft. The shaft, the location of the CG, etc. all play a role. If you built a modern low-CG 6-iron with 33° loft and the same shaft, the thing would launch to the moon. A simple example is Titleist's MB and CB set (and their CB irons are hardly super aggressive in lowering the CG): they could blend at any iron in the set (so maybe you wanted MB from 8-iron on up, CB 7-iron down), and yet the CB was 2° stronger. Yet they launched at the same angles and went the same distances, or close enough that you could blend wherever you wanted within the set. Moving the CG just a few mm was enough to necessitate 2° stronger lofts.
Is there some gaming of the system to have "the longest irons"? Absolutely. But at the same time, some of those changes are necessary because of the "playability" changes they've made to move the CG, widen the soles, expand the clubface, perimeter weight, lower the kick point in the shafts, etc.
One can putt with any of these balls....TW wins were with his putter...while he may have hit it further and it may have sounded different, if he weren't making the putts he would have just been another longball dude...
Tiger won with his driving and his approach shots. Mark Broadie's research, my own research, etc. will validate that. Here's a chart…
I recall here about ten years or so back a number of folks were contending that technology had reach its zenith related to balls and implements and that under the USGA/R&A guidelines nothing more could be accomplished by the manufacturers to increase distance.
With the benefit of hindsight, I think it's pretty clear that view was mistaken.
Was it?
Ten years ago the median on the PGA Tour hit it 288.7 and the top guy hit it 315.2. Clubhead speeds were 112.72 and 124.18.
Last year the median on the PGA Tour hit it 292.5 and the top guy hit it 317.2. Clubhead speeds were 114.04 and 128.18.
Doesn't seem to me that they've gotten anything out of driving distances in the last ten years. Players are swinging between 1.32 and 4 MPH faster and hitting the ball between 2 and 4 yards farther.