[A.G._Crockett]

Tom,
I agree, and thought on Sat. that the atmosphere looked fun and o.k. for the players, and that Curtis (Very) Strange was off-base in his negative comments during that telecast about the crowd.

However, DeMarco's comments in the paper this morning indicate that the crowd singled him out for harassment yesterday because he was in contention with and playing with Kaye, who has been a Phoenix resident since 2nd grade.  I didn't see it (I was playing golf!) but would be interested to hear the takes here on what actually happened.

[James Edwards]

Tom,

None taken believe me..
The game is not dying, I don't buy that argument... whoever said that.  The womens game is growing, the mans game is growing...


Yes, they are coddled, that is definate!  but, as long as each player can have the chance to execute a shot with three holes to play for the chance to win, I don't care how much money for, whether it's me and you on the links or weir and mickelson at Pheonix, lets keep the gamesmanship between the players and not the crowds..

j

[THuckaby2]

AGC:

I'd guess that crap like that is gonna happen, and they're always also gonna favor Mickelson and other locals... But hell, again for me the good outweighs the bad.  We have here huge interest in golf as an event, at a time the sport is allegedly hurting.  Pros whining about it will just speed the demise... man we as fans ought to be behind the fans, not pampered pros.  Of course there is a line that shouldn't be crossed, and at some point it could get out of hand - but for me that's just when physical danger is imminent, and that hasn't happened yet.

[Brian_Gracely]

Hall Sutton made an interesting comment on Saturday while watching all the players tee off on #16. (goodness is he dry and adds very little beyond the obvious)

"We need to remember that this IS a golf tournament".  

Ok Hal, what do you mean by that?  PGA Tour players want to play for $4-6M purses each week, on perfectly green and manicured courses and only play at the events that overly coddle them before and after the rounds.  But when those people that are ultimately paying the cost of the purse (via tickets and food/beverage sales) decide to loadly cheer AFTER each shot, then this is no longer a golf tournament?  So you expect them to just show up and walk the course and remain silent?  

And I don't buy into the argument that it's distracting to players on #15 or #17, because they clearly showed them waiting to play around the roars from #16.  Yes it adds a few minutes to each round, but nothing more significant that the time it takes for DiMarco to go through that elongated pre-shot routine.  

[RJ_Daley]

I see it both ways.  It is more than just a golf tournament - it is professional sports entertainment event.  And, in the case of the "Thunderbirds" reasons for putting this on, it is to raise money for charity-community purposes.  So, having a venue that is a big entertainment hoot that happens to focus on or take place during a golf tournament is almost incidental.  A lot of things come together that particular weekend.  The superbowl usually that weekend, the snowbirds in town to get out of northern winters, and lots of 18-20 somethings looking for something to entertain themselves with that involves copious amounts of alcohol.  

But, the danger is having this mentality spread within other tournaments.  It already exists to some extent with the Ryder Cup with all the "war by the shore" hype and crowd interaction with the likes of Monty.  As the demographics of golf continue to reflect the latest X-generation, they reflect the values and attitudes that are pounded into their head with every hyped sporting event, trash talking jock show, 'do the dew' and various beer commercials where infantile to extreme jackass stupid behavior is encouraged in the name of marketing.  

Some of the PGA tour players are just starting to have their little personal showboating everytime they make a birdie.  Actually ChiChi started it with the sword dance.  Currently it is Tiger and the fist pump. When will the showboating go mainstream and every tour player try to out do eachother's birdie putt hole out dance? (i.e. corresponding to football's endzone dance)  When will the tour have to levy a fine.  I say it is coming.

As a side note, I could never understand how someone would park their behind on a bleacher at one hole and say they watched a golf tournament.  If I couldn't wander the course and jump back and forth watching several holes and groups at various stages of the round, I wouldn't bother to walk across the street to just sit in one place at one hole. IMHO

[Mike Hendren]

RJD,

If you ever get the urge to park yourself in the bleachers, take the back/right corner behind no. 8 at Augusta National Golf Club and watch the approaches on nos. 1 and 8 and the tee shots on 9.  Well worth the walk across the street

Off Topic:  Some of the greatest time I spent with my Dad was in lawn chairs behind the 3rd green at Colonial CC during the Danny Thomas Memphis Classic. There was an obscure parking lot less than 75 yards behind the green.  Mom would load us up with country ham and biscuits and fried chicken and we'd watch the entire field play through, then head home to catch the finish on the tube.  

Mike

[THuckaby2]

RJD:

Ever been inside a corporate tent at a golf event?  If not, I HIGHLY recommend it.  I've been lucky to do so several times at the AT&T and well... as great as Pebble is, I must admit I never left the tent.  There is more to life than looking at golf courses...  

[James Edwards]

Tom,

Bar ladies?

[THuckaby2]

JJSE - no, not for me - I tend to go to these things either with my wife or her father!

 

But such are good, well, er, eye candy.

Re your comment above - missed that - my thoughts re "the game is dying" hearken to Geoff's book, plus all the articles in the recent golfweek as described by Tuco... With all that, I thought "the game is dying" is a given... one I sure don't accept, but I'm working with.  

And you're right, with the game on the line this does kinda suck for the pros.  But hell, it's only this one tournament... if this is how it were all over, then perhaps some reigning in would need to occur.  My read is that this remains the exception... when it becomes the rule, then we might have a problem.  But not until then!

[James Edwards]

Tom,
Point taken on both sentences.
Good to hear you come to that conclusion...

Bill,
We go next week to SF and work down the coast through Monterey and on to San Diego and then into the desert - so due of your recco, I will head there.

Thank you.

[RJ_Daley]

as great as Pebble is, I must admit I never left the tent.  There is more to life than looking at golf courses...

but is there more to spectator golf than watching it played out, and watching it on great golf courses?

Huck, Yes, I've been in corporate tents...

If I were at the AT%T at PB and I never made it out of the grandest of grand tents, I'd consider it mercy if someone would just shoot me and put me out of my misguided delerium.  But golf is a great big game and there is room in the tents for anyone, if you have proper credential badges...

[THuckaby2]

RJD - cool!

I only mentioned it to say that there are different ways of treating this, that's all.  Please remember that living where I do, I've seen Pebble a LOT.  So the choice came down to free food, free drinks, very comfortable sofas, big-screen TV's... or traipsing around a course with 50,000 other yahoos trying to get a glimpse of Tiger.  I saw more of him, and more of the course, in the tent than outside of it!

Bottom line is this though:  make it a course I haven't seen, and well... I'd at least leave the tent for a few hours.

When it comes to golf courses, I'm into playing far more than looking anyway.  And free meals have a powerful effect.

 

[Rick Shefchik]

Our culture, decorum and civility are eroding by the day, so what happens at #16 is nothing remarkable (sorry for the cynicism, but I was cut off in a parking lot this weekend by a woman in an huge SUV who waved at me to stop so she could pull out in front of me while she talked on her cell phone, then flipped me the bird when I mouthed my vulgarity-free displeasure at her selfishness; then Janet Jackson entertains million of unsuspecting Super Bowl viewers by concocting a simulated sexual assault at halftime.)

The fact is, class and respect are eroding more slowly at golf tournaments than just about anywhere else I can think of. Where else in our society can 10,000 drunken, raucous people suddently silence themselves long enough to let a millionaire swing a golf club in undisturbed peace?

Were I one of the pros, I think I'd ask the fans at 16 to start roaring as soon as I put my peg in the ground, and keep it up until I'd finished hitting my shot. I think it would be energizing to hit a ball with 10,000 people cheering for you, and it would probably create less tension than wondering in the back of your mind if one of the yahoos was going to yell "You da man" or "Noonan!" or "It's in the hole" on my downswing.

But that's just me. I think pros who prefer silence are entitled to it, and under these circumstances, we should be amazed that they get it -- routinely.

[Forrest Richardson]

Every year at 16 there are several abrupt stops in forward swings! The best I recall was Gary McCord who waggled and made a believable swing down only to stop short and then smile and point his finger at the bleachers and the caught-off-guard fans who had already begun their wild yelling with no regard for where the ball was going or how accurately.

Yesterday someone did a similar fake-out...but I can't recall who. I was 180 yards away.

[THuckaby2]

Both Rick's and Forrest's posts warm my heart.  Rick's because I hadn't thought of it that way - it does say something that at the very least, 10,000 drunks can be silent when they are supposed to; and Forrest's because I did want to believe that at least some tour pros had a sense of humor!

 

[Mike Hendren]

At least there was no "wardrobe malfunction" in the crowd

Mike

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