Wind-Shmind...

[RJ_Daley]

I don't know how many threads about great courses inevitably get into a paean of the glories of the wind.  You can hardly talk about Bandon-Pacific, NGLA, Shinny, SH, WH, Barnbougle and all the other sea or prairie courses without someone going off all enfatuated about how they love a good hard blow of the wind.

OK, it is exhilerating.  But, every day?  Yeah, I've played my favorite Wild Horse in upper 30s gusting to upper 40s.  Oh yeah, hitting a drive 340 greenside is a big thrill for a normally shortish driver like most of us mortals.  But, hitting driver into such winds 160-190yds and watching it balloon up in a outrageous slice is also a trip to bow-wow land.  It all evens out...  Fussing with oscillating balls on greens (the stupidest rule in golf IMNSHO) is a pain in the rear.  

Doesn't ever present wind on great courses get overbearing and destroy appreciation for exeriencing all the important features of great design and solid play by forcing odd crafted low punch and stinger type shots all the time, and eliminating great golf swings?  Is the wind and excuse for otherwise irradic players?

Are there wind freaks out there that want it to blow all the time 20-30?  Wouldn't you rather play once or twice in about 10 outtings with serious wind and the rest of the time in something under 12mph, even at Sand Hills or Shinny?

[A_Clay_Man]

Dick- Thats the thing about wind, you can't control it. You can control if you golf in it, though.

Honestly though, If you wanna have real sport FUN, wind has to be a factor.

The more the marrier for me. It makes me a better golfer. And your point about all low stingers is only true when/if every hole was into the wind.

At P.G. there were days on the backnine when the cross nature to the wind made every hole niether into or downwind. Controlled ball flight, in that, was imperative.

[Dan Kelly]

. . . odd crafted low punch and stinger type shots all the time, and eliminating great golf swings?

Would you please stop talking about my golf game?

The serious answer is: I don't want 30 mph all the time, but I do revel in it -- and I'm disappointed, no matter the course, when it's dead calm.

[THuckaby2]

aren't the words to live by
nae wind, nae golf?

That being said, 100% of anything in this game is never the best thing.  Variety, remember?  Thus if I were a member at Dornoch or another great links where it can blow hard, I'd certainly appreciate the odd calm day, if only for my ego.

TH

[Brian_Gracely]

I played Spanish Bay in 30-40mph cross winds last November and after losing about 5 balls on the first five holes, I finally confined myself to playing an entire round of low stingers.  I'm not sure I'd want to do that more than once a week (on any course), but it was close to being as fun a round as I've ever played.  Throw in that I walked it in 2:15 and nobody else had ventured onto the course and it was one fun afternoon.

btw - I had only brought about 6 balls with me, and if I hadn't miraculously found a "clump" of 5 balls laying in the middle of the 6th fairway, I would probably have ended my day right there.  Playing in the wind is one thing, playing in the wind with endless ESAs is a whole different nightmare.

[RJ_Daley]

Let me come at this a different way then.

If you were going to get to play Cypress Pt., or Sand Hills, or Shinny, or Friars Head just once ever, would you want the wind to be wafting 8-12 or blowing 25-30mph?

[Brian_Gracely]

RJ,

The only time I played Pebble Beach there was absolutely no wind and I don't for one secod feel like I was robbed of the experience.  Those types of courses are difficult and distracting enough as it is.

Now, on the other hand, the few times I've been to the UK it's been both wet and minimal winds.  I'm really hoping they have drought-like conditions this summer so I can really experience the "ground game".

[THuckaby2]

Let me come at this a different way then.

If you were going to get to play Cypress Pt., or Sand Hills, or Shinny, or Friars Head just once ever, would you want the wind to be wafting 8-12 or blowing 25-30mph?

Good question.
Put me down for 8-12.  I wouldn't want it less than that - oh, like Brian, I wouldn't feel like I MISSED something if it were calm, but hey, you're asking what I want - I've experienced each (except FH) in 25-30 or more and well... that's fun too... but more of a survival test than ultimate fun to me.  I like to have a CHANCE for some decent shots...

[bstark]

>>>>Doesn't ever present wind on great courses get overbearing and destroy appreciation for exeriencing all the important features of great design and solid play by forcing odd crafted low punch and stinger type shots all the time, and eliminating great golf swings?  Is the wind and excuse for otherwise irradic players?<<<

As an old Irish priest once told me once (before he ripped a one iron 195 yards into a 30mph wind) "the wind, she's a great equalizer"

No.

[ForkaB]

As one who plays a lot of his golf in the wind, I must say that when it gets up above 25 knots or so it is indeed fun, but it is also fortunate that, most of the time, the winds on my courses are but gentle zephyrs of 5-15 or so.  A steady diet of 3-4 club winds is nae gowf, regadless of what that eponymnous (and probably apochryphal) Scotsman once said.

I should also note, as I have here before, that one of the best pieces of advice given to me by a very good player, who knew his onions about wind-golf, was to NEVER change your game and/or swing in a heavy wind.  Just slow it down a bit, upwind, down wind, sidieways, etc.  It is amazing how far you can hit a high ball into a strong wind, IF you hit it cleanly.  With the low-spin characteristics of the new balls (e.g. ProV1x) this counterintuitive phenomenon is probably even more true.

Finally, anybody who thinks that the great links courses are pussycats when there is no wind, just hasn't played them enough.  In a dead calm, one's sensors are underloaded, and it is really hard to pull the trigger in the absence of feedback from Mother Nature.  REally!

[RJ_Daley]

Yes, the great equalizer.  The wind brings in a greater measure of luck too.  And, it rewards those that can hit the low punches and stingers, which is a neat shot to be able to make, but quirky compared to refine swing form.  doesn't mere firm and fast conditions with mild to low winds also offer both the chance to hit the low bounder and also the choice to hit the more controled fade/cut or draw into various desired FW and pin positions?  Can firm and fast yet benign wind conditions actually offer yet one more dimension and be somewhat more demanding of a great repitoire of ball striking abiltiy than the equalized luck or arbitrary bad luck to one's opponent that just stiff wind creates?

[THuckaby2]

I'm just gonna trust Rich Goodale on this one.  As nonsensical as he is about rankings in general and Carnoustie in particular, he gives perfect wisdom on this issue.  

 

[Steve Lang]

 

One time at TOC, Sept 1996..

75°F perfect temp.
12-15 mph winds, just enough to make it interesting
firm and fast, truly fun

77.. priceless

any other conditions would now be more interesting.. wind doesn't mean anything unless its put in perspective

[Darren_Kilfara]

I also agree with everything Rich said. Many times on this site, I get the impression from the people rhapsodizing about "nae wind, nae gowf" and such that they live in a place where the average wind is roughly nil. Golf is perfectly satisfactory to me with no wind - indeed, I just about prefer playing in no wind, because the game is easier. (A 5-10 mph wind is nice, but no wind at all is just as nice - as long as the lack of wind means that the midges are out.) And as I've said before, very few people have ever complained that the game of golf is too easy...

Cheers,
Darren

[Steve Lang]

 


Why not transform question to :

hills-shmills, mountains-shmountains, dunes shmooons,

If you only have one day do you not enjoy your experi?  If you have more time, any place can be a home course, where every blade of grass brings new experi.  Its all the same root experience.  

[TEPaul]

Well, I'll be damned and go to Hell! Rich Goodale actually said something really intelligent!

Rich, I was completely expecting you to pop onto this thread and quote "nae wind, nae golf" and leave it at that. But again, you didn't do that and put up a most honest and intelligent post---I'm unabashedly impressed. Darren Kilfara did the same as you but I expect intelligent posts from him!  

Anyone who comes on here and says they wouldn't enjoy golf if they couldn't play golf in strong wind every time they went out to play I'd completely discount their appreciaton and understanding of golf in a general sense.

Personally, I'd rather play the majority of my golf without the total factoring of wind but those times I have played in really tough and complicated wind conditions will always remain completely unforgettable and valued to me.

To me really tough wind is the complete X factor of golf and definitely golf architecture. Certainly architects can't completely design for it although the best of them appreciate and understand its value.

Golfers who do really well in tough wind I think are good, sensible and lucky too! If a golfer thinks about it the wind itself on some golf courses just could be one of the most multi-optional aspects of all--probably more multi-optional then the best architecture sans tough wind could ever be.

Real wind is always to be valued in golf but if I could play in calm to zephyr type wind 75-90% of the time I'd be a happy man--as Darren said, golf is tough enough. But the other 10-25% of the time let it blow however it wants to just to prove that we will never really be what we think we can be in this game!

[TEPaul]

Furthermore, in my opinion, anyone who can play golf half decent, and basically knows what to expect in moderate conditions, should be fascinated to ply their skill and decision-making in tough wind conditions. If you're playing well and making sensible decisions in tough wind it's so exhilerating and gratifying, at least to me. The only thing about golf to me that compares to the interest, exhileration and gratification of playing in tough wind conditions is playing in extremely firm and fast conditions on a golf course designed and suited for that! I guess I probably say that now because I'm not accustomed to playing golf often in super firm and fast conditions--it's a somewhat unusual experience for me.

On that note, I should share with you all a really firm and fast experience that was totally exhilerating for me and one I'm not at all used to--unfortunately. While playing a twosome in Yorkshire England with my old friend Craig Ammerman last summer on an interesting course (who's name for some odd reason I can't recall) I hit a good driver on a par 5 of maybe 550 yards (and I'm anything but long) and had maybe 230 into the green. It was downwind and I thought to myself if I hit this next shot to land about 185-190 at that spot short and right of the green my ball might bounce high and truck right onto the green. I took a 6 iron (which I hit about 165 at most) and hit it right where I was imagining and the ball did just what I thought it might (of course I'd never been to this course) and I sunk about a 25 ft putt for eagle.

God, was that exhilerating! I'll never forget something like that--it's what the draw of golf is all about to me!

[Rick Shefchik]

If it were a tone-a-mint, I would always prefer wind. When I'm driving up to the course in the morning and the wind is blowing hard, I figure that eliminates half the competition right away.

Unfortunately, as often as not I end up in the half that's eliminated. That hasn't changed my opinion, however.

[A_Clay_Man]

Love the story Tom P. It conjures up all kind of wonderfully obtuse scenarios involving people who golf, think they are golfers, but lack the creativity and imagination you showed in your thought processies. I believe wholeheartedly that 99.875% of all golfers would never have included the last little bit of "allowance" that obviously made the decision a right one. Switching down to your 165 club from 230 tooks a real understanding of the variables presented and doing it on a virgin trek is most impressive.

On a corrolation note: One would need to hole-out a shot, in calm conditions, to equal the satisfaction that comes from a well considered shot, as the one you described.

To me, that says volumes about the essence, which really does seem to elude most people.

[THuckaby2]

Adam:  

That says volumes about the essence for guys like us, addicts and students of the game.... I've had experiences like Tom's also and hell yes, it is what the game is all about, for me, as a golf addict....

But you're right, it does elude most golfers - they are neither addicts nor students - so for them, HOW MANY is always gonna trump HOW.

Sad but true.  They're not gonna give a rat's ass what club they hit, how they carefully planned it, how cool it was that a 3iron went 130 into the wind or 230 downwind, whatever - a skulled wedge that hits the top of the pin and clangs to a stop a few feet away is always gonna be better than Tom Paul's shot, for them.

The thing is, I don't see anything WRONG with that... to each his own, big world of golf, etc. Our essence ain't there essence, and neither is right or wrong.

[A_Clay_Man]

Huck- I do see alot wrong with it.

This "big world" theory is really BULL! Why? Because it allows for the laziest asses, the laziest minds to dictate to the more sophisticated, the conditions of play and the canvas that gets created, just because THEY HAVE A WIDER DEMOGRAPHIC. Thats not good enough for me. I expect more from people and I certainly expect more from these organizations who self-righteously give lip service to protecting or improving, golf.

Look at the venues the tour plays. How can you justify having any tournament at Wialea? Or some of these other dummy venue versions. I suspect it's all political and grab ass with buddies of the decision makers. That is not golf, it's essence or it's spirit. It's plain ol' american corporate old boys network paying homage to thier relationships, crap.

P.s. I feel much better now.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Dick, give me the spice of life. I like different winds and weather. I love golf in all conditions. However, just as I would not like calm windless day every day , I would not enjoy 30 to 40 mph every day as well. Please give me differnent conditions to enjoy as a part of the game.

[A_Clay_Man]

Shiv- That's a Chicago syndrome, no need to see a doc.

It's subconscience, you can't stand golf in the 60-90 degree range because that's when the world ventures out to keep the pace at a brisk 5 hours at Waveland. (and others)

[THuckaby2]

Adam:

They do what they do, we do what we do, it ain't gonna change no matter what any of us say here.  Life is far too short to sweat this.  These days, for every Lost Canyons there is a Rustic Canyon.  For every Waielae tourney there's a Kapalua Plantation.  What's the big problem?

That being said, I sure as hell DO look forward to reading Geoff Shackelford's "Future of Golf" book, which comes out next week.  There's a guy who does see problems clearly, and whose words can change things.  I can't wait to read it.  

In the end, oh sure, everything you say is part of what's "wrong" with the game.  Meanwhile I still have a hell of a lot of fun playing it, at more great places than ever.  If I'm supposed to be pissed off at this horrible game, well... I just don't see it.

TH

ps to Shivas - you wouldn't LOVE rounds at NGLA or CPC or Rye on calm days?  Thought so.  Venue matters more than weather.  I'd say people do also, but that's just social overly sentimental me.  

[THuckaby2]

You're reaching, my friend.

Oh sure, wind does make the experience "pure", especially at places where it is generally windy and thus one assumes such is factored into the design (like the places I listed).  But certain places do reach a magnitude of greatness such that one love's one's rounds there even absent the "right" weather.  They're not PERFECT, but to say one doesn't LOVE them, well... I can't buy that.  This is one of the reasons they are great!

I think you know this, also.