Uphill architecture

[TEPaul]

Who did uphill holes and uphill architecture the most creatively? Who did it best? Certainly some steered as far away from it as they possibly could for a number of reasons! What are some of the things and some of the tricks of doing good and interesting uphill routing and architecture?

[JakaB]

Flynn created some of the best uphill masterpieces as reflected by his work at Lehigh...see, I pay attention.

[TEPaul]

Barney, somewhere in the back of that convoluted mind of yours I always knew you were an architectural genius!

[BCrosby]

MacK did great uphill.

No. 8 at ANGC is a terrific par 5. Straight uphill. A hole under-appreciated because nos. 13 and 15 are on the same course.

No. 18 at ANGC. Straight uphill, dogleg right. It was designed to encourage a cut that skirted the pines at the right corner. A classic strategic green with a left front bunker (it was originally a boomerang green) that threatened approaches from the bail-out area on the left. The old MacK strategy disappeared for a while with modern distances. The new back tees may actually help to restore it, though it's too early to tell.  

I've seen a lot more good uphill par 5's than good uphill par 3's or 4's. Not being able to see the putting surface makes it hard to design any but fairly benign green complexes if the approach requires more than a middle iron.

18 at ANGC does a good job of dealing with these issues. Another good uphill par 4 is 14 at Merion. A huge green guarded by a wonderful hump at the left front. No bunkers on the hole, as I recall.

But it is interesting how few really good uphill holes there are. I get the sense that architects spend a lot more time avoiding them rather than designing them. They magically figure out a way to have the first and last hole play downhill with no uphills in between. (The reverse of my father who told me he used to walk to school uphill both ways.)

It's also interesting how many times the weakest hole on a course is an uphill hole. I'm thinking of Dornoch no. 16, no 9 at The Country Club (non-composite). The least memorable par 4's at Prestwick are all uphill. Too many repetitive uphill par 4's is the weakest part of Peachtree.

I wonder how many great routings were rejected solely because the architect was trying to avoid a couple of long, hard, uphill slogs.

Bob

 

[Forrest Richardson]

In a recent contribution to Paul Daley's next book I write about David Gill's little known par-3 at the Valley Club (NLE-Phoenix). David used the short hole to get golfers up the side of Camelback Mountain. It was about four stories in a span of 130 yards.

I feel it a shame to avoid the occasional uphill hole. As to who is "the" master of such routed holes, I could not say. I believe all thoughtful golf architects have left behind a few decent uphill holes.



One from yours truly.

[Jeff_Mingay]

I enjoy a good uphill hole.

A few interesting ones that come immediately to mind include: the par 4 10th and par 3 16th at Kingsley Club (DeVries); the par 4 1st and 10th holes at Blackhawk (Whitman); and Doak's par 4 14th at High Pointe, which is one of my favourites.  

Of course, there are many more good ones from the 1920s era I can think of too: including Stanley Thompson's par 3 9th at Capilano and the par 4 7th at St. George's, Toronto. And how about the par 5 2nd at Merion East? Not bad!

There are more... gotta run though...

[JakaB]

Forrest,

That looks like the type of hole that the cognoscente on this site would hate...what do you like about it...or if anybody else would like to comment...please give him some help.

[Forrest Richardson]

I didn't say I liked it. But I do.

It's full of choices. A long tee shot will enable the go for the green but reaches a narrower fairway neck. This creates a bif tee decision as any restraint usually will mean a go for the green is out of the question. Any lay-up needs to consider the 30-foot uphill embankment which — if too close to the second shot's resting point — will create a blind shot uphill. Prior to the green is an expanse of approach to the left which allows a more conservative shot to the upper level as opposed to going for the narrow green (180-ft. deep).

(The guy is playing from the top of a mound is likely the photographer's contribution.)

[ChipOat]

Bob Crosby:

#16 is the hole at Dornoch that most people LIKE the least - usually until they play it 3 or 4 times.

The second shot doesn't look very appealling since it's blind (the only one on the course from the fairway) but the drive is a very strategic exercise when downwind.

Least favorite - often.  But weakest?  No way.  

[Chris_Clouser]

I have no idea who did it best or the most creatively.  I have found that Maxwell did route many uphill par threes to get to elevated portions of his sites.  Also he routed many of his finishing holes uphill and playing towards the clubhouse for both nines of his courses.  Southern Hills and Old Town are excellent examples of this.  

[Jeff_Mingay]

Chris,

You mention uphill par 3s and I immediately thought of 13 at Sand Hills. A very good uphill par 3, I think. The 17th there, another great one-shot hole, also plays slightly uphill; as does the par 4 2nd (!), the par 4 5th, the par 4 9th, the par 4 15th, and the par 4 18th (!).

There's some uphill architecture for you!

[James Edwards]

Tom,

A good example of a course which utilises the hill, well, in the overall context of design, is Gullane #1.

You play up the hill on Holes 1 and 2, then down it on 3.
Once again you climb on 5 and 6 before falling once again on 7. (A View of Muirfield can be seen from this tee)

The next time you start climbing, the same hill, is on holes 13, 14, 15 and 16 before coming down the other side on 17 and 18.

With regards to design, the 2nd hole is a solid dog leg right to left played up hill between two large hills. The approach has a fantastic green formation, which I would show on this forum if I knew how to post them.  If you want them, I can send them to you via email. (I'm sure there is a technical name for this) The small swales either side of the green are great catchment areas for the approach that will always be wind effected as the wind channels through the 2 hills!

15th hole is just wonderful.  A par 5 on the reverse side of the same hill from the 2nd, meandering up the hill full of bunkers and strategic design.  Everything in view and exciting to play.  

These are just two of the many fine examples of uphill design at Gullane.

[Darren_Kilfara]

Agreed re: the uphill holes at Gullane no. 1. Holes 2 and 5 there are among the few outstanding specimen of uphill links par 4s.

One of my favorite par 3s in the world is the third hole at Shiskine, the 12-hole course on the island of Arran - I described it in my book. It's called The Crow's Nest, and it goes straight uphill for 130 yards with a vertiginous, gorse-strewn drop off (to tee-level) on the left and some awkward terrain on the right; any bail out to the right leaves you with a downhill, running chip toward the precipice. Great hole, and beautiful to boot once you reach the green.

Chipoat, the approach shot at #16 Dornoch (like #9 at TCC non-composite) is very tricky, and arguably also possesses an element of strategy. But in no way would I describe it as a good uphill approach - I agree that #16 is the weakest hole at Dornoch, though by no means the easiest.

Cheers,
Darren

[TEPaul]

When I think of uphill architecture I think of holes that are all uphill, where a par 3, 4 or 5.

It doesn't seem that Ross tended to do many of these but obviously he had to now and again. The short uphill par 5 #18 at GMGC is this way (the hole has to get from low ground up about over 80 feet back to the clubhouse. Ross did the hole demanding a tee shot to a high ridge and from there uphill again to another high ridge the green sits on.

Flynn seemed to roll across all kinds and forms of topography but one of his best totally uphill holes is Huntingdon Valley's par 4 #18 where the drive needs to play as far up to a perpindicular ridge as possible while carrying the diagonal right side of the incline up to the top of the perpindicular ridge. From there the golfer has another very uphill shot to the green on this really long par 4 to a green cut and leveled into  the side of the very left to right sloping hillside.

Flynn's relatively long par 4 #8 at Lehigh is uphill all the way but much more so on the drive. I understand that the original tee on this hole was even further back and lower making the tee shot even more uphill than it now is. From that original tee further back I think this hole, or its tee shot, really wasn't very good as the flatter portion of the fairway would seem to have been too far out there for even a long hitter to have a chance at off that lower and longer tee, so I can understand why the club decided to lose that tee.

Flynn's very long par 3 #15 at Philly C.C is about as uphill all the way as a par 3 can or should get. And Flynn's 600 yard #9 at Rolling green is both very side hill in the first half but basically gradually uphill all the way.

[James Edwards]

Darren,

How are you?  Hope you are well..  Still in AUS?

I was going to describe the 5th next as I agree it's a wonderful example of uphill golf course architecture.

Solid draw shot required off the tee, threaded between the bunkers and then an accurate approach required to a large green which sits quite steeply at you from back to front.  Large mounding coming off the green side bunkering make for interesting selection of chip and pitch shots if your approach is short, which is easy to do uphill into the wind.

Do you know who laid the course out?

James

[TEPaul]

J.J.S.E.

I think it was the Gullane #2 that I played last summer (the lesser of the Gullane's). Anyway, hole #3 is super uphill on the tee shot, too much so in my opinion but what is the architect going to do? He had to get from here (tee) to there (green) at some point so that severe uphill tee shot was unavoidable and necessary. The only good news on that particular hole is it's very short! Coming the other way (from near #3 green) the ski-run all the way super downhill #17 is really fun to play!

[DPL11]

Tom,

As uou know, another good example of a fine Flynn uphill would be the long par 4 #3 at Manufacturers.

The tee to driving area is only slightly uphill. The approach rises to a smallish green built into the hillside. The green slopes hard back-front and left to right.

Other examples at MGCC would be the par 3's #6 &11, and the original par 5 #18. The finisher has a blind tee shot and blind approach to a plateau green at the base of the clubhouse. It has a second green that plays as a par 4 which is in play most of the time.



Doug

[BCrosby]

chipoat -

I've only played Dornoch twice. The first time through I thought 16 was out of character with the course, calling for a funky drive to a non-descript green complex; second time through didn't change my mind.

But I am very corrigible and look forward to visiting it again. Soon I hope.

Bob

[mike_malone]

 Once we got rained out at Rolling Green after our tee shots on #11.As we walked back up toward the tee to the clubhouse it hit me about Flynn's genius in uphill architecture.If there were a green where that #11 tee was,it would be a blind approach and unappealing.Flynn used the many highs and lows at RG to put the tees on these higher spots and the greens on lower rises.This often gives a view of the green from the tee and in most places a view from the fairway.
    Here and at other Flynns i have played he used the side of the hill for the fairway rather than just up and down the hill.


    There are three par threes that go uphill at Rolling Green--#6--#10--#14.#6 is almost the same level from tee to green but feels much uphill;#10 is gradual and promotes the run;#14 is often likened to #5 PVCG;it reminds me of Calamity at Royal Portrush.

    There are 6 other uphill holes that require a carry to the green and 4 others that have a gradual uphill.The variety is evidence of his genius.

[James Edwards]

Tom,

A good point.  Gullane #2 has a variety of good holes, clearly not on the same par as #1 but some good stuff nonetheless!

Number 17 is an enjoyable downhill hole, but I would agree that if you do have to go up a hill, makesure it's tackled early in the round because this is when golfers are fresh and ready for battle and try and limit the distance (as on the 3rd) so the experience is not spoilt to much and detracts away from the quality that is the Gullane courses.

James

[Jeff_Mingay]

Stanley Thompson's portfolio features some outstanding uphill holes too, including:

-the par 3 9th and the par 5 18th at Capilano;
-the par 4 7th at St. George's (!) (Robbie Robinson's redo of the par 5 15th is awful uphill architecture, on the other hand; very awkward. It answers any question as to why Thompson didn't originally place the green atop that high hill!); and, of course,
-the par 4 1st, par 4 14th and par 5 16th (!) at Highlands Links.

There's a fine line between quality uphill architecture and very poor uphill holes, isn't there. Again, all you need to do to understand the difference, clearly, is study Thompson's original 15th at St. George's vs. Robinson's redo.  

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Tom
How about the 12th and 16th par3s at Thomas' Whitemarsh Valley?
Steve

[TEPaul]

Steve;

I don't think of Whtemarsh's #12 as uphill but I sure do #16. Even for a shortish par 3 on #16 some feel they have to help the ball into the air. Another example of an uphill hole all the way at Whitemarsh, though, would be #6.

[Tyler Kearns]

Jeff,
   
   Off the top of my head, I cannot recall the extent of the work at Brantford credited to Stanley Thompson, but a few holes there merit the designation of quality uphill architecture. Both the 15th & 18th holes are fine, although they are not in the same class as those you mentioned at Capilano (setting aside).

Tyler Kearns

[GeoffreyC]

Tom

Maybe the best uphill concept I know is most alps holes by MacDonald/Raynor


Another gem of an uphill concept they did is the 10th at Yale



There is a similar very dramatic uphill approach at Myopia Hunt (#14?).

Tillinghast did some really nice uphill par 3's including the 11th at Fenway and two uphill par 3's (one short and one long) at Alpine CC.

Isn't the 9th at Rolling Green a 600 yard uphill death march if you're not hitting the ball straight and solid?