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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:The Importance of Entitlement
« Reply #50 on: January 07, 2004, 01:49:40 PM »
I've been contacted several times by potential clients who are ready to purchase a piece of property with "all the entitlements in place" to build a golf course.

They are willing to pay a premium to get the property without the fear that permits will be denied.  There is, as you might imagine, a great added value in that.  The permitting has usually been done by a developer with housing land close by or adjacent, but sometimes it is done by someone who just specializes in land speculation.

Forrest is right, there's value in this.  Twenty years ago, the people who owned the land that is now Bandon Dunes had thought about building a golf course there, but never had the money to proceed.  However, if they had gone through the permit process, they probably would have resold the land for much more than they did.

Forrest is right.  If you know a piece of property that would be good for golf, and has some environmental attractiveness, you should encourage the owner to seek approvals for use as a golf course, before that "attractiveness" becomes an "environmental issue."

John_Cullum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Importance of Entitlement
« Reply #51 on: January 07, 2004, 02:06:19 PM »
Twenty years ago, the people who owned the land that is now Bandon Dunes had thought about building a golf course there, but never had the money to proceed.  However, if they had gone through the permit process, they probably would have resold the land for much more than they did.



This sounds good; however, since obviously the property was eventually developed as a golf course, the entitlement would not appear to have added much. I have no idea about the history of Bandon Dunes development, but unless it was fraught with problems, entitlement wouldn't have saved alot of headaches.

Also, keep in mind that a 20 year old entitlement would likely require numerous adjustments. Environmental issues raised post entitlement but pre-development would still need to be resolved.

If property is marketed as having entitlements, you still have to due extreme due diligence to see what that entitlement gets you. you need a legal opinion of the entitlement, as well as an engineering consult.

That said, getting an entitlement for a golf course certainly won't hurt, but since it is not easily done, and doesn't appear to resolve problems very far out into the future, it is likely not worth it.
"We finally beat Medicare. "

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:The Importance of Entitlement
« Reply #52 on: January 07, 2004, 06:47:20 PM »
Sarge:

Mike Keiser told me that when he bought the property in Bandon he figured his odds were about "one in three" that he could get permits to build the golf courses in the dunes along the ocean.  He succeeded because they were smart in how they approached it, and lucky that the opposition wasn't entrenched.

I guarantee that if someone had re-zoned the project for golf in the 1980's there would not have been much argument.

Similarly, we built Riverfront GC on the banks of tidal marshes under the jurisdiction of the Chesapeake Bay Preservation Act.  When we first did the routings in 1991, we were able to get variances to remove trees and place several holes along the marshfront; then the project got delayed because the industrial company that owned the land was taken over on Wall St., and the new owner didn't want to develop the golf course.  We didn't get started on the construction until late 1997, and I guarantee you we wouldn't have been able to route the same golf course by that time, were the entitlements not already in place.

TEPaul

Re:The Importance of Entitlement
« Reply #53 on: January 07, 2004, 07:01:22 PM »
This is a most interesting thing and I sure do get it now. I've had a certain amount to do in real estate and I have to believe that in my area--in my immediate area anyway doing something like this couldn't exactly happen like it does in the West anyway in this "banking" or permitting for value sort of way. I believe permitting around here is extremely specific and probably has some kind of performance time or time limit on the project permit. There's some serious conservation interests around here too.

The smartest thing the principals of Applebrook G.C. did is go into partnership with the local conservation organization right from the git-go!

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Importance of Entitlement
« Reply #54 on: January 07, 2004, 08:45:05 PM »
Tom,

That is exactly what a client of ours is doing now — engaging a well regarded conservation group to master plan property and assist in "smart" entitling. Everyone wins if this works because the causes are all considered.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Importance of Entitlement
« Reply #55 on: January 07, 2004, 08:51:09 PM »
What is the cost of zoning 150+ acres and obtaining the needed permits to build the golf course?  Maybe $25,000 to $1MM+ in places like CA?  Does the land owner/speculator come-out of pocket to fund these costs?  I doubt that there is traditional financing for this approach as in this case,  the "improvements" (the "entitlement"),  produce no additional cash flow and its collateral value is speculative at best.

While zoning may be permanent until an owner applies for a change, I believe that permits in most places have a limited shelf life.  Perhaps a specif use plan development sans the permits could be obtained, but if the land owner had the wherewithall to divine what the market needs X years out, he would likely develop the property himself.  

As was also pointed out earlier, EPA, flood, and wetlands regulations change all the time.  As far as I know, today's regulations/limits cannot be grandfathered until the property is developed X years from now (states can normally impose more stringent requirements than the feds, but not less).

In the Bandon example, Keiser got a relative bargain because he assumed the risk that the property could be developed to a higher use than the present zoning allowed.  He rolled the dice and won.  In theory, if the original land owner had access to the $$$$ to secure the entitlement, he could have taken the risk himself years earlier, and someone like Keiser may have paid a premium.  Or perhaps not, and the current owner would have spent all the time, money, and effort for naught.  In the worst case, if he got a lender involved and mortgaged the land, he could have lost it.

Another thing to consider is whether the original owner can maintain his agricultural exemption after receiving the entitlement.  In many areas, the pulling of permits triggers the change in the tax classification of the property, and taxes can go up astronomically over night (plus roll-backs for up to five years in some states).

About the only scenario where I see considerable benefit in something like an entitlement is when an owner can do things with the property that the buyer and developer may not be able to do otherwise.  For example, I believe that a farmer or a rancher might be able to do more with wetlands on his property than a golf developer.  Or a prominent member of the community, say a mayor, can be involved with a group of local owners and shepherd through zoning and variances that an outsider would not be able to obtain.  The property is then sold with the approvals in place at a premium.  Under this scenario, however, the term to development is usually months, not years.

I still would like to know the states where this entitlement thing is prevelant.  Perhaps I am missing something which may be usefull for a potential client, and I am willing to research it.    

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Importance of Entitlement
« Reply #56 on: January 11, 2004, 08:57:45 PM »
Lou said, "About the only scenario where I see considerable benefit in something like an entitlement...[etc.]..."

Lou,

"Entitlement" is a right in a property to transform it to another use. So, I'm not sure you fully understand the meaning. It is NOT speculation before a distant use in order to "bank" — although that angle has been used. Rather, it is simply whatever steps need to be taken to use a property for something other than its current use.

Entitlement could be as simple as a permit for grading — still entitlement as it is a step which has to be taken.

The complex extreme is the Forest Course at Pebble Beach...decades of environmental struggles which still continue; not to mention numerous other approvals and agencies, each with its own agenda and set of rules.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

jimbob

Re:The Importance of Entitlement
« Reply #57 on: January 14, 2004, 11:05:52 PM »
Gentlemen,

Lets differntiate between zoning and entitlement.  If land is zoned as open space in any jurisdiction, you can apply for a tentative tract map to build a course. To approve the MAP
teh jurisdiction will attach conditions of approval to the TTM.
Invariably one of the conditions is to start the project within
two years  OR go back through the process all over again. SOOOO land banking with entitlements is not an achievable goal.

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Importance of Entitlement
« Reply #58 on: January 21, 2004, 03:41:34 AM »
JimBob,

Your assessment references an isolated case or condition. Land banking is a reality, and it is regularily practiced when conditions are ripe and right.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

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