Did Donald Ross ever say "no"?

[Kyle Harris]

Title says it all.

Did Ross ever turn down a project? Or actively move it to one of his associates without credit?

The only instance I can think of where an architect recommended another for a project was Tillinghast to Philadelphia Country Club advocating for William Flynn.

I'm sure there are other examples and perhaps this can generate some interesting discussion about the architecture market back in the earlier eras.

[Bret Lawrence]

He said No to the back nine at Dedham Country & Polo Club.  There is a scathing letter from Ross to one of his friends about Dedham and how they chose Fowler to build the back nine.  Fowler never finished the work and went back to England, so the club asked Ross to come in and finish the work.  Ross didn’t seem happy about their choice of Fowler and he said something along the lines of He didn’t feel like cleaning up Fowler’s mess.  Shortly after, the club hired Seth Raynor to finish the back nine!

[Kyle Harris]

He said No to the back nine at Dedham Country & Polo Club.  There is a scathing letter from Ross to one of his friends about Dedham and how they chose Fowler to build the back nine.  Fowler never finished the work and went back to England, so the club asked Ross to come in and finish the work.  Ross didn’t seem happy about their choice of Fowler and he said something along the lines of He didn’t feel like cleaning up Fowler’s mess.  Shortly after, the club hired Seth Raynor to finish the back nine!

Oh, tasty!

[Sven Nilsen]

If setting a rate for services that is going to preclude certain clients from asking for your services can be equated to saying no, the answer is yes.


DR's rates were widely reported on and known throughout the country. 


By all accounts Ross was a man of principle.  I doubt he was going to take on a project, whatever the scope thereof, if he couldn't fully meet the client's expectations.


Sven

[Mark_Fine]

Sven,
What is the difference between saying “I doubt he was going to take on a project” vs saying, “He probably didn’t visit the site”?  Both are estimated guesses 

[Sven Nilsen]

Sven,
What is the difference between saying “I doubt he was going to take on a project” vs saying, “He probably didn’t visit the site”?  Both a estimated guesses 

One is a much more educated guess than the other.

[Mark_Fine]

I will pass your response on to Brad     There is a reason he doesn’t frequent this site and join in these discussions and he knows this one is going on.

[Ryan Book]

It seems from my gleanings from the wayside (not a Ross reference) that Ross rarely hesitated to provide paid consulting services in instances where clients didn't have the money for proper design work. One instance came during my chat with the GM at Kebo Valley, who brushed off any claim that Ross was a designer there; rather, during leaner times, he provided a few notes on agronomy and suggested moving one green. It doesn't seem such dealings are as publicized as Tillinghast's PGA tour.


I wonder if these minor inputs resulted in so many alleged Ross "designs" popping up, the product of exaggerating such visits.

[Kyle Harris]

It seems from my gleanings from the wayside (not a Ross reference) that Ross rarely hesitated to provide paid consulting services in instances where clients didn't have the money for proper design work. One instance came during my chat with the GM at Kebo Valley, who brushed off any claim that Ross was a designer there; rather, during leaner times, he provided a few notes on agronomy and suggested moving one green. It doesn't seem such dealings are as publicized as Tillinghast's PGA tour.


I wonder if these minor inputs resulted in so many alleged Ross "designs" popping up, the product of exaggerating such visits.

This tracks with some of the mythos surrounding misattributed Ross courses in Florida.

I believe he may have provided recommendations on construction services, too. Every misattributed Ross in Florida seems to have, at worst, two degrees of separation from an actual Ross.

[Tom_Doak]

Kyle:


It’s a very interesting topic you raise.


I think in the Golden Age, architects and clients had different expectations than today, and our view is skewed by today’s market.  Maybe someone was put off by Donald Ross’s stated price, but not like today when lots of projects start out thinking “we can’t afford Jack Nicklaus so who do we call?”


Most business people (and Donald Ross was a business person) will offer some sort of introductory services as a way of qualifying new leads, and it sounds above like Ross indeed did that.  The Dedham thing sounds like they passed him over for Fowler originally and he had no interest in working with those people.


98% of architects will take any job where the client agrees to their price and I am only sure of two architects today who you can’t say that about.

[Sven Nilsen]

Tom:


Here is the actual letter regarding Dedham.  This should give you some clarification and erase the need for suppositions.


Sven

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