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Tommy Williamsen

When is your game too far gone to get it back?
« on: March 07, 2025, 02:55:02 PM »
I say this not only for us amateurs but for TOUR players. 


As a Norwegian/American, I watch the progress of Viktor Hovland. He is in a desert. Jordan, Rickie, and Justin Thomas are all struggling. Can any of them recapture their previous form? We have seen some guys lose their game and never get it back. When is your game too far gone to get it back?
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Phil Young

Re: When is your game too far gone to get it back?
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2025, 04:15:54 PM »
When you've had 7 spinal surgeries, 11 heart stents, a triple-bypass, 2 minor strokes, surgically cleaning out of the left carotid artery that was 90% blocked and the cause of the 2nd stroke, the gall bladder removed, type-2 diabetes that somehow was cured and no more insulin is being given. I almost forgot, a really bad TA in which I spent another lovely 2 days in the ER and in a room. But I still have hope!
« Last Edit: March 07, 2025, 04:19:06 PM by Phil Young »

Matt Schoolfield

Re: When is your game too far gone to get it back?
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2025, 04:42:12 PM »
This is why I generally don't like professional sports. Always look forward, don't look back. Golf is a fun game to play as long as you're able can swing a club; the score never really matters. There will always be someone better than you and someone else worse. Chasing a number misses the point of why we're all wasting our time together.

Tommy Williamsen

Re: When is your game too far gone to get it back?
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2025, 05:24:40 PM »
This is why I generally don't like professional sports. Always look forward, don't look back. Golf is a fun game to play as long as you're able can swing a club; the score never really matters. There will always be someone better than you and someone else worse. Chasing a number misses the point of why we're all wasting our time together.


I’m not sure how many of us agree with that sentiment. I am certain Hovland doesn’t.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Jeff_Brauer

Re: When is your game too far gone to get it back?
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2025, 05:31:52 PM »
Tommy,

I haven't played in 3 years due to my wife's illness.  I have tried the range a few times, including so I could play at the November ASGCA meeting, and declared my game as either worthy of Long Term Injured Reserve or Do Not Resuscitate.  As I said in another thread, I really like golf courses more than golf, and it has crossed my mind that I may never actually play again.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Matt Schoolfield

Re: When is your game too far gone to get it back?
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2025, 05:53:32 PM »
This is why I generally don't like professional sports. Always look forward, don't look back. Golf is a fun game to play as long as you're able can swing a club; the score never really matters. There will always be someone better than you and someone else worse. Chasing a number misses the point of why we're all wasting our time together.


I’m not sure how many of us agree with that sentiment. I am certain Hovland doesn’t.


I don’t doubt that. We all come to golf for different reasons.

Bruce Katona

Re: When is your game too far gone to get it back?
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2025, 06:19:58 PM »
I enjoy the walk as much as playing.


My game isn't as good as it once was - back in the day I could break 80 a couple times a year; its been a bit since thats happened.


I enjoy hitting balls on the range, walking 18, the fresh air, hitting several good shots in a row, making a putt/birdie or sandie.  Most times I get out early as my good friends who own my usual venue allow me to.


I wish our dog was better off the leash - having my sidekick along with me for 3 hours of fresh air would only make it even better.
"If my words did glow with the gold of sunshine
And my tunes were played on the harp unstrung
Would you hear my voice come through the music
Would you hold it near as it were your own....."
Robert Hunter, Jerome Garcia

David Cronan

Re: When is your game too far gone to get it back?
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2025, 10:36:56 PM »
I say this not only for us amateurs but for TOUR players. 


As a Norwegian/American, I watch the progress of Viktor Hovland. He is in a desert. Jordan, Rickie, and Justin Thomas are all struggling. Can any of them recapture their previous form? We have seen some guys lose their game and never get it back. When is your game too far gone to get it back?


You must hold Justin Thomas in very high regard as he's presently ranked #8 in the world.

Thomas Dai

Re: When is your game too far gone to get it back?
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2025, 08:26:56 AM »
I say this not only for us amateurs but for TOUR players. 
As a Norwegian/American, I watch the progress of Viktor Hovland. He is in a desert. Jordan, Rickie, and Justin Thomas are all struggling. Can any of them recapture their previous form? We have seen some guys lose their game and never get it back. When is your game too far gone to get it back?
The quote “The brightest stars burn the fastest” comes to mind.
Atb

Mark Pearce

Re: When is your game too far gone to get it back?
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2025, 10:59:35 AM »
My game was too far gone after 13 holes this morning.  But then I made a couple of birdies and three pars and am raring to go again.
In July I will be riding two stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity, including Mont Ventoux for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Tommy Williamsen

Re: When is your game too far gone to get it back?
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2025, 11:54:16 AM »
Tommy,

I haven't played in 3 years due to my wife's illness.  I have tried the range a few times, including so I could play at the November ASGCA meeting, and declared my game as either worthy of Long Term Injured Reserve or Do Not Resuscitate.  As I said in another thread, I really like golf courses more than golf, and it has crossed my mind that I may never actually play again.


Jeff, I am glad she has you to walk with her.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2025, 02:17:36 PM by Tommy Williamsen »
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Bernie Bell

Re: When is your game too far gone to get it back?
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2025, 12:32:56 PM »
Depends what you're trying to get back.  In other endeavors (since abandoned), my goal with age was not to get faster, but to get slower slower.  For the guys in their prime, like Hovland, I have no clue.  Never did understand where it comes from or where it goes.  One of the reasons we love sports I think.   

David Cronan

Re: When is your game too far gone to get it back?
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2025, 01:40:41 PM »
As far as personally, my game is history and so is my participation. I used to be decent (+1 at lowest) but after a series of several shoulder surgeries (last being a total shoulder replacement) and dozens of epidural injections, I've only picked up my clubs once in 5 years. It would take WAY too much time and effort to get back to semi-decent and as I get older, I enjoy other things.


With respect to pros, 2 jump out at me: Seve and Langer. Seve battled back issues for 3 decades and, in the end, reduced him to a shell of his brilliant self. Langer has had the yips multiple times in his career, yet overcame them and become a multi-major winner and the most dominant Senior Tour Player in history. Incredible mental, and physical, resolve.

Tommy Williamsen

Re: When is your game too far gone to get it back?
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2025, 02:36:40 PM »
I was in the wilderness for about three years. I knew as I aged, I would lose a bit of my game. But the loss of my game was not age-related. I couldn't find fairways or greens, and an arthritic thumb  left me baffled about the greens. It was my wife who helped me get it back. "Tommy, if you do not make a shoulder turn, you might as well quit the game. I am tired of your whining." I got surgery and worked on my game. I feel more energetic and confident. I thought my game was lost for good. It isn't what it once was but at least I can shoot my age once in a while. And it is more fun.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Ira Fishman

Re: When is your game too far gone to get it back?
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2025, 03:30:16 PM »
Tom,


I never had a game to lose and get back. But having spent 15 years working on behalf of NFL players, I can validate that one of the greatest things about the game of golf is that good players like yourself get the pleasure of playing the game at a high level for very long time relative to almost any other sport.


Ira

archie_struthers

Re: When is your game too far gone to get it back?
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2025, 06:37:14 PM »
 8)


Hey, I've never been one to play just for the walk given that I can walk the beach every am and it's more therapeutic ! 


So I play golf for the competitive nature and to test myself against the game, I have played bad for a while now (relative term) but other day shot a pretty low score and it wasn't without some wasted shots.  Easy course but tough greens and looking forward to doing better.   


Have a friend that shot his age almost every day in the last ten years of his career. Pine Valley's caddy master and my old  boss Tommy Elder.  Amazing how he slapped it around and "never made a putt" all those years . 


Keep the faith and play hard / smart ...you can do it!

A.G._Crockett

Re: When is your game too far gone to get it back?
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2025, 11:09:52 AM »
I say this not only for us amateurs but for TOUR players. 


As a Norwegian/American, I watch the progress of Viktor Hovland. He is in a desert. Jordan, Rickie, and Justin Thomas are all struggling. Can any of them recapture their previous form? We have seen some guys lose their game and never get it back. When is your game too far gone to get it back?
I wouldn't conflate what professional athletes, including golfers, face with the rest of us.  Their careers are very short, and their window for playing their best is very small.  We get fooled by some of the superstars, but the reality is that the average career at the highest levels of football, baseball, basketball, hockey, and soccer is 5 years or less; golf is longer at around 10 years or so.  The margins for professional athletes is very, VERY small, and golf is no exception.  Check out the Korn Ferry Tour list; there are a LOT of guys who at some point in the past contended on the big tour, made a lot of money or even won, whose window closed, at least at the Tour level.
Hovland and Speith are instructive.  Both have made HUGE amounts of money at very young ages.  Speith is in his early 30's now, with 3 young children, and his estimated net worth is north of $100m.  In addition to already having well over a decade on Tour, add to that the possible decline of physical skills, and the question becomes whether or not he has the same motivation to work at his game now that he had 10 years ago?  I don't know the answer to that, but it's an open question, I think.  At that, Speith has already made nearly 3/4's of a million dollars so far in 2025; he could continue to make money without ever returning to his "glory years" for a long time to come.

Hovland is a bit younger, and seems to be making swing changes, but it's important to remember that he had a year in 2023 that few have ever matched; to expect him to maintain that level of play probably isn't reasonable.  And Hovland is still ranked 15th in the world, and has made north of $200k in only 3 tournaments so far in 2025.  Will he ever again be as high as #3 in the world?  Maybe, but the odds are against it because, well, that's just the way odds work.  But he could play another decade on Tour and make millions yet, so maybe we don't write an Hovland obituary right now, even if he never makes it back to the top 5 in the world.
We had a guy at the HS in GA where I coached who played college golf, and then played professionally for a number of years.  He was mostly on what is now the Korn Ferry Tour (then Nike, I think), but had his Tour card several times for about a decade.  We were talking one day, and he made this statement:  "People get fooled by Tiger and Phil and the other top guys; the rest of us are just trying to ride a hot putter for a few weeks each year long enough to keep our cards."
We're different, of course, because we have various devices available to us that professional golfers just don't.  We play shorter tees, we play against other living fossils, we get more strokes as our indexes inevitably rise, and so forth.  Different world.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Tommy Williamsen

Re: When is your game too far gone to get it back?
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2025, 01:22:18 PM »
AG wrote, I wouldn't conflate what professional athletes, including golfers, face with the rest of us.  Their careers are very short, and their window for playing their best is very small.  We get fooled by some of the superstars, but the reality is that the average career at the highest levels of football, baseball, basketball, hockey, and soccer is 5 years or less; golf is longer at around 10 years or so.  The margins for professional athletes is very, VERY small, and golf is no exception.  Check out the Korn Ferry Tour list; there are a LOT of guys who at some point in the past contended on the big tour, made a lot of money or even won, whose window closed, at least at the Tour level.

Boy is that true. Players never know when they have reached their peak. I played youth golf with some guys who won everything in sight. A couple I thought were destined for great things. But there best golf was at 17. I peaked about 30. I hope Hovland gets it back. Time will tell,
« Last Edit: March 09, 2025, 04:34:18 PM by Tommy Williamsen »
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Ben Sims

Re: When is your game too far gone to get it back?
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2025, 02:56:15 PM »
I’m 42 and I started playing at age 19. I’m a better player now than I have ever been and I don’t foresee an end to that trend. But no one does. We think we will just get better until it age/fitness that gets us and not our ability to score. But that’s not always true. Scoring right now seems like something I can almost willfully turn on and off. The best versions of me are accessible given I concentrate and really try. Being a single digit handicap was always a goal and it took me two decades. Now it seems like a given. I’ll let you know when the improvement stops.

David Kelly

Re: When is your game too far gone to get it back?
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2025, 04:37:15 PM »
I’m 42 and I started playing at age 19. I’m a better player now than I have ever been and I don’t foresee an end to that trend. But no one does. We think we will just get better until it age/fitness that gets us and not our ability to score. But that’s not always true. Scoring right now seems like something I can almost willfully turn on and off. The best versions of me are accessible given I concentrate and really try. Being a single digit handicap was always a goal and it took me two decades. Now it seems like a given. I’ll let you know when the improvement stops.
Why would you turn scoring off?
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Shane Wright

Re: When is your game too far gone to get it back?
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2025, 05:00:18 PM »
There isn't a black and white answer to your question Tommy.


As far as I know, there isn't a regular poster on here that has ever been a top 125 player in the world. 


If there was, I believe they would tell you something about how difficult it is to maintain top form for a long and consistent time....as in WAY more difficult than anything any amateur players have ever experienced. 


I also think that since golf is an individual sport and there is way more money involved now, it is much easier to let off the golf (gas) pedal physically and mentally and be able to take some time to enjoy loved ones and life.

Mark Pearce

Re: When is your game too far gone to get it back?
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2025, 05:25:06 PM »
Lee Westwood had 160 weeks in the world top 10 between 1998 and 2001 he dropped at least as low as 181 before coming back and reaching number 1 in 2010.
In July I will be riding two stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity, including Mont Ventoux for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Ben Sims

Re: When is your game too far gone to get it back?
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2025, 06:06:43 PM »
I’m 42 and I started playing at age 19. I’m a better player now than I have ever been and I don’t foresee an end to that trend. But no one does. We think we will just get better until it age/fitness that gets us and not our ability to score. But that’s not always true. Scoring right now seems like something I can almost willfully turn on and off. The best versions of me are accessible given I concentrate and really try. Being a single digit handicap was always a goal and it took me two decades. Now it seems like a given. I’ll let you know when the improvement stops.
Why would you turn scoring off?


That’s a great question. Ask Matt Schoolfield. Or any number of people that go out with a couple clubs and a beer without shoes on. Etc et al. I love golf cause you can make it what you want and I don’t think it’s always lowest score wins.


Playing my best golf is mentally taxing. It takes a large amount of focus and that’s not always in high supply. Sometimes its just about being out there and enjoying the time. Hopefully I’m making sense.


So to answer the OP, when is your game too gone? I think a lot of it has to do with when you’re too tired to keep being good.

jeffwarne

Re: When is your game too far gone to get it back?
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2025, 07:27:51 PM »
I’m 42 and I started playing at age 19. I’m a better player now than I have ever been and I don’t foresee an end to that trend. But no one does. We think we will just get better until it age/fitness that gets us and not our ability to score. But that’s not always true. Scoring right now seems like something I can almost willfully turn on and off. The best versions of me are accessible given I concentrate and really try. Being a single digit handicap was always a goal and it took me two decades. Now it seems like a given. I’ll let you know when the improvement stops.
Why would you turn scoring off?


That’s a great question. Ask Matt Schoolfield. Or any number of people that go out with a couple clubs and a beer without shoes on. Etc et al. I love golf cause you can make it what you want and I don’t think it’s always lowest score wins.


Playing my best golf is mentally taxing. It takes a large amount of focus and that’s not always in high supply. Sometimes its just about being out there and enjoying the time. Hopefully I’m making sense.


So to answer the OP, when is your game too gone? I think a lot of it has to do with when you’re too tired to keep being good.


This is something I have very recently had to come to terms with.
Golf remains my passion but,now that injuries have kept me away from playing for a few months and I"m still incredibly busy with rediscovered other responsibilities and new passions, I do wonder how I ever found and made the time to one dimensionally maintain my game for the previous 50 years.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Ira Fishman

Re: When is your game too far gone to get it back?
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2025, 07:43:20 PM »
I’m 42 and I started playing at age 19. I’m a better player now than I have ever been and I don’t foresee an end to that trend. But no one does. We think we will just get better until it age/fitness that gets us and not our ability to score. But that’s not always true. Scoring right now seems like something I can almost willfully turn on and off. The best versions of me are accessible given I concentrate and really try. Being a single digit handicap was always a goal and it took me two decades. Now it seems like a given. I’ll let you know when the improvement stops.
Why would you turn scoring off?


That’s a great question. Ask Matt Schoolfield. Or any number of people that go out with a couple clubs and a beer without shoes on. Etc et al. I love golf cause you can make it what you want and I don’t think it’s always lowest score wins.


Playing my best golf is mentally taxing. It takes a large amount of focus and that’s not always in high supply. Sometimes its just about being out there and enjoying the time. Hopefully I’m making sense.


So to answer the OP, when is your game too gone? I think a lot of it has to do with when you’re too tired to keep being good.


I played a 3 club challenge a couple of days ago. 3 wood, 7 iron, and PW. A complete reinforcement why the game is so mesmerizing.

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