Best courses based on value?

[Matt Schoolfield]

We've had a lot of discussion of best courses, best new courses, and a lot of discussion of price increases in the UK. I think it might worthwhile to talk about best course value, as it adds another level of complexity to argue about.

I'm talking about goodness-per-unit cost.

Allowed:

• Cost needs to be the full visitor fee or a reasonable day rate if dynamic pricing.
• Unaccompanied fees only if private (if they don't have an unaccompanied rate then no rate is valid).
• Walking discounts are allowed.
• Weekday rates allowed.
•18-hole rates at 9-hole courses are also allowed.

Not allowed:

• No twilight allowed.
• No resident discounts.
• I'm going to already nix free-to-play courses for having potentially undefined value: no Bruntsfield or Buhl Park.
• Must be full 9-hole or 18-hole course: no kinds of "back nine only" type rates at courses like Pacific Grove.
• No season or annual rates for courses or clubs.

I honestly have no idea who would be at the top of the list, which is why I'm curious what everyone else has to say. If you think $405 at Pasatiempo ($22.50/hole) is more valuable than $46 for 18 at Northwood ($2.50/hole), then that's totally fair!

Very curious to see what folks have to say.

[Tom_Doak]

If you succeed at identifying the courses that aren't charging enough . . . be careful what you wish for.

[Matt Schoolfield]

If you succeed at identifying the courses that aren't charging enough . . . be careful what you wish for.

I hear that, but good for them if they should charge more! The point of the exercise isn't trying to find the most "undervalued" course, it's to try and identify the value of what different courses have to offer.

How much are green speeds worth? How much do we value a sharp line on the fairway? How much do we do we think sandy turf is worth? I think all of that is interesting, and if you can find a course that focuses on maximizes the things that you value, the you maximize your consumer surplus... even at a perfectly priced course.

[John Kavanaugh]

Could you count private memberships or season passes at public courses?

[Matt Schoolfield]

Could you count private memberships or season passes at public courses?

I'd say no. It should be the cost for someone who just wants to go play a few rounds.

[Sean_A]

We've had a lot of discussion of best courses, best new courses, and a lot of discussion of price increases in the UK. I think it might worthwhile to talk about best course value, as it adds another level of complexity to argue about.

I'm talking about goodness-per-unit cost. Cost needs to be the full visitor fee or a reasonable rate given dynamic pricing, but no twilight allowed. Unaccompanied fees only if private (if they don't have an unaccompanied rate then no rate is valid). No resident discounts if municipal. Walking discounts are allowed. 18-hole rates at 9-hole courses are also allowed.

I'm going to already nix free-to-play courses for having potentially undefined value: no Cavendish, Bruntsfield, or Buhl Park.

Must be full course: no back nine only at Pacific Grove.

I honestly have no idea who would be at the top of the list, which is why I'm curious what everyone else has to say. If you think $405 at Pasatiempo ($22.50/hole) is more valuable than $46 for 18 at Northwood ($2.50/hole), then that's totally fair!

Very curious to see what folks have to say.

You pretty much have my top 50 value courses on my Nifty 50 post.

Ciao

[Brian Finn]

Jud Tigerman did a pretty thorough examination of the quality/cost value proposition a while back.  I'll post a link if I can find it. 

Some immediate candidates that come to mind:
Aiken GC (SC)
WildHorse (NE)
Rustic Canyon (CA)
Cleeve Hill (England)
Gullane 3 (Scotland)
Shiskine (Scotland)

Also - I don't think Cavendish is free to play...

[John Kavanaugh]

It would seem those with the greatest resources play and live at the places they value the most.

[Matt Schoolfield]

You pretty much have my top 50 value courses on my Nifty 50 post.

Fore the lurkers: https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,73572.msg1765579.html#msg1765579

[Sam Morrow]

As a city resident I can play Memorial Park for $30, best that!


Gus Wortham, another local muni, is now $43 and it's still an incredible deal.


Liberty Municipal about 45 minutes outside town is a really good 9 holer that only charges about $40 to play 18.


I think I paid $60ish with a cart at Wild Horse and I felt like I was robbing them.

[Matt Schoolfield]

As a city resident I can play Memorial Park for $30, best that!

No resident discounts if municipal.

Memorial Park should be priced at $120 for the purposes of this exercise.

[Sam Morrow]

As a city resident I can play Memorial Park for $30, best that!

No resident discounts if municipal.

Roger, then I think Memorial is like $140, still cheap for a Tour course.

[Frank Sekulic]

I would think Lawsonia Links and Wildhorse would have to top any list.

[Michael Felton]

Bethpage Black for $75 in state is incredible value. Even at $150 OOS it's pretty good for a major championship venue.

[Ira Fishman]

Matt,


Interesting way to frame the question. I am not sure of current fee, but my list:


Arrowtown (NZ)
Golspie
Kilspindie
Hog Neck (Maryland)
St Andrews Beach (AUS)
Paraparaumu Beach (NZ)
Carne
Bethel Inn (Maine)


To T Doak’s point: Mid Pines, Pine Needles, and Pasatiempo easily would have made the list 10 years ago.


To JK’s point, if travel were not the barrier, there are a bunch of overseas memberships whose value is off the charts.


I am not sure why you are excluding 9 hole courses. But I would put Mulranny and Mt. Massive on the list.

[John Kavanaugh]

Most of the “value” courses are one offs of a golf trip at a non-value commodity. Should those count or should you ask for courses that are the crown jewel of the area?

[Matt Schoolfield]

I am not sure why you are excluding 9 hole courses. But I would put Mulranny and Mt. Massive on the list.

9-holes are allowed, just not "this 9-hole section of an 18-hole course" like the loopsided value of the back nine at Pacific Grove.

[John Kavanaugh]

I would think Lawsonia Links and Wildhorse would have to top any list.

Did you see where Lawsonia Links fell out of the Nifty Fifty?

[John Kavanaugh]

As an attempted contribution: I enjoyed Bunker Hill more than Wild Horse. Bunker Hill is just off the highway between Denver and North Platte.

[Jim_Coleman]

    Jeffersonville! $40 includes cart,   use of virtual range and play on a well conditioned renovated Ross course. Too good to be true.

[Craig Sweet]

Value?  What does that mean?  Where's the value if you have to fly 2000 miles and stay in $250 a night lodging to play?   


Value is in the eye and pocketbook of the player.


For me, $850 a year to play Old Works is good value.

[Kyle Harris]

If you succeed at identifying the courses that aren't charging enough . . . be careful what you wish for.

Are we ready to discuss what The Park has done to the affordable munis in Palm Beach County yet?

[John Kavanaugh]

Has the growth of great options in the Sand Hills diluted the value of Wild Horse? On my last trip Landman was our trip filler. Filled us right up!!!

[MCirba]

    Jeffersonville! $40 includes cart,   use of virtual range and play on a well conditioned renovated Ross course. Too good to be true.

Jim,


Shhhhhhh

[Kyle Harris]

    Jeffersonville! $40 includes cart,   use of virtual range and play on a well conditioned renovated Ross course. Too good to be true.

Jim,


Shhhhhhh

Yeah. Really. Next you’ll be discussing Middletown.

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