OT - Annika's Slow Play Prescription

[MCirba]

Annika Sorenstam has always seemed to me to be a very practical, no-nonsense woman who would grace any governing body in sports.  I found that belief amplified when I read this quote from her this morning concerning the cancerous plague of slow play on all of competitive golf.

“[Rangefinders] will slow it down because you will want to double-check the number now. Did I push the button right? Did I hit the flag, or did I hit the tree behind it, or did I hit a pole behind the green?” Sorenstam said to SBNation.  “Caddies always want to have ground yardage because that’s what they do. I don’t think [rangefinders] are gonna help. It’s more of a matter of keeping up with the group ahead and having a certain time. You know, the AJGA does a good job. When you play, and you get to Hole No. 4, you need to be at an hour, and then after eight holes, maybe you need to be at two hours. We have to push it. If they don’t want to do that, minimizing the field hurts other people.”

The full article can be found here.   PGA Tour Rangefinders? Annika Sorenstam has better ways to fix slow play - SBNation.com

[Chris Hughes]

This is an interesting topic...

Up front, I think Annika is a dolt and blowhard, but when she was setting records I was in her camp vs. Karrie -- would flip that were  a time machine in my possession.

That said, and not necessarily for the right reasons, I do believe she has arrived at the proper conclusion.

On the PGA Tour caddies are going to walk it off to get the front-edge yardage, no matter what...then do the pin related calculus from there. 

This process (on the PGA Tour) will never be superseded by a rangefinder. 

Then, and just because it's an available option, caddies will get out the rangefinder and doublecheck, just because they can.  And THEN, if there's any doubt about what the laser might be bouncing off of the caddie will hand said rangefinder (a CYA move) to the player in order to have him confirm what's coming up on the RF screen.

Net/net, introducing rangefinders will only serve to slow down play on the PGA Tour.

PS...when a REALLY wayward shot is hit into the next fairway or something like that, a rangefinder will save a bunch of time.  However, that probably won't happen enough to offset the time that is lost on all the routine shots.

NOTE:  I despise that fact that the PGA of America now allows rangefinders in their (now borderline) major championship -- complete nonsense.  I also despise the fact the USGA allows rangefinders in our/their various National Championships, and I have caddied in a whole bunch of them.

PPS:  Rest in peace J.D. (John Doherty)...a gentleman and fine human. 

[Ryan Van Culin]

I don't believe any players and caddies will use the laser as a last resort. I think they'll shoot it first, then, if it seems off, they'll double check that number with the book. I feel like the caddie and player will have a good ballpark of what their number is as they approach the ball, they'll shoot it, fine tune it based on the conditions of the day, then hit the shot.


Maybe I'm wrong, I'm just a part time caddie at a private club, but I can't imagine pacing off a number and doing the calculations before just shooting it with the laser.

[Sam Morrow]

Still doesn't help with the amount of time it takes the pros to putt.

[Chris Hughes]

I'm just a part time caddie at a private club, but I can't imagine pacing off a number and doing the calculations before just shooting it with the laser.

The economics in play are considerably different...

[Mark Pearce]

The suggestion that the reason for slow play is how they get yardages is....absurd.  Once they have that number, the debate starts about how to play the shot.  That's having already waited for someone else to play before they start to prepare to play their own shot.  There are a whole bunch of contributing factors.  Getting yardages is just one (relatively minor) one.

[Kalen Braley]

The suggestion that the reason for slow play is how they get yardages is....absurd.  Once they have that number, the debate starts about how to play the shot.  That's having already waited for someone else to play before they start to prepare to play their own shot.  There are a whole bunch of contributing factors.  Getting yardages is just one (relatively minor) one.

Couldn't agree more with this statement.  They will always find some other aspect of the shot to nitpick and haggle to death.

The only solution as I see it, is some type of shot clock to be enforced by a 3rd party with actual penalties.

[Jim Hoak]

I agree with Mark and Kalen!  The only real solution is a shotclock that is enforced with stroke penalties.
There is so much money at stake that most pros and caddies will only hit the shot after getting the maximum information of all sorts (not just yardage) that they can get--that is the problem in a nutshell.  And, too many amateurs follow this pro example of getting all they possibly can before hitting.

[Carl Johnson]

I'm just a part time caddie at a private club, but I can't imagine pacing off a number and doing the calculations before just shooting it with the laser.

The economics in play are considerably different...

Economics (money) is everything.  Until it materially affects the bottom line, the pros and USGA biggies are fine with slow play.  What I'd like to see is a pro tournament where no range finders or gps aids are allowed, no caddie books allowed, and sprinkler head yardages covered.  Not only that, cover up all the red, white, blue, yellow markers, and don't allow pacing off from the 150 yd. shrubs.  Go to your ball, take a look in front of you, and hit it.  I'm not saying all tournaments, but one or two would be fun, just to see how good the super elite players really are.

[archie_struthers]

 


OMG ....I know my good buddy Cirba isnt ok with juniors hitting the 8th hole in 2 hours , it must have been Annika. Mike , say it aint so !


The time these guys take to get a round in on tour is absolutely ridiculous , even on these crazy long courses. I would say that juniors today are way too slow , and its amazing to me!  When we would go out as juniors we almost ran between shots so as not to get in the members way. But , Im showing my age

[David_Tepper]

"I think Annika is a dolt and blowhard"


Really? Wow, I did not know that.

[Chris Hughes]

I'm just a part time caddie at a private club, but I can't imagine pacing off a number and doing the calculations before just shooting it with the laser.

The economics in play are considerably different...

Economics (money) is everything.  Until it materially affects the bottom line, the pros and USGA biggies are fine with slow play.  What I'd like to see is a pro tournament where no range finders or gps aids are allowed, no caddie books allowed, and sprinkler head yardages covered.  Not only that, cover up all the red, white, blue, yellow markers, and don't allow pacing off from the 150 yd. shrubs. Go to your ball, take a look in front of you, and hit it.  I'm not saying all tournaments, but one or two would be fun, just to see how good the super elite players really are.

I remember those days...

My first recollection of any sort of yardage related marker/waypoint was when a "150 bush" appeared on the right side of hole #3 at Myers Park CC circa early/mid-1970's...

I do like your idea Carl, it would be fun to see golf played that way again!!  (professionally & locally)

PS:  As it goes to the professionals, as long as the tournament finishes within the allotted television window, who cares? 

If the answer is you have a slow play problem locally and you chalk that up to am's emulating behaviour of the pro's -- point the finger at your Golf Committee, Board, and proshop staff.  This should never be a problem at any legitimate private club.

[Joe Hancock]

No cheat sheets, no devices and if you walk more than 10 yards past your ball before you hit it, it’s a 2 stroke penalty.


So much of the intellectual side of golf has been diluted or erased, and the end result is slow play.

[Adam Lawrence]

Up front, I think Annika is a dolt and blowhard, 

Takes one to know one!

[MCirba]

OMG ....I know my good buddy Cirba isnt ok with juniors hitting the 8th hole in 2 hours , it must have been Annika. Mike , say it aint so !

Archie,


As you know, I'm in favor of the death penalty for rounds over four hours.   People think I'm kidding.   


But I'm also a practical pragmatist and now play in events is creeping upwards of six hours, which is insane.   You, me, and Bausch would lap them twice playing a three-ball!

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