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Ryan Van Culin

  • Total Karma: -3
Re: A question about greens fees these days
« Reply #25 on: Yesterday at 08:34:24 PM »
As Tom alluded to it seems like fairly straight forward math:

Say you have 150 time slots in a given day that you can fill with a $100 green fee.  But if you increase the green fee to $200 only half are bought, 75. You'd still end up with the same daily revenue: 150 X $100 = 75 X $200 = $15,000

However the latter scenario results in half as much on course traffic (and theoretically half as much "damage") as well as you could space the tee times out and avoid waiting/congestion.

If you were a course operator which scenario would you prefer?


This is also assuming you sell half the slots at twice the price. There is a point where you will sell less than the price increase. If you sell 50 tee times, at $200, you've lost $5k.

Chris Hughes

  • Total Karma: -106
Re: A question about greens fees these days
« Reply #26 on: Today at 12:25:15 AM »
Keep reading "the UK private clubs are so awesome because they allow outside play" but the more I hear seems in real-terms they are loosely slotted into the "semi-private" category, at best. 


Clubs that are solving for profitability, are not private, but rather public -- by definition.
« Last Edit: Today at 03:20:58 AM by Chris Hughes »
"Is it the Chicken Salad or the Golf Course that attracts and retains members?"

Brian Finn

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: A question about greens fees these days
« Reply #27 on: Today at 09:44:28 AM »
Keep reading "the UK private clubs are so awesome because they allow outside play" but the more I hear seems in real-terms they are loosely slotted into the "semi-private" category, at best. 

Clubs that are solving for profitability, are not private, but rather public -- by definition.
Categorize it how you like, Chris, but the model (for the majority of UK clubs) is superior in virtually every way.  Additionally, they are not solving for profitability, but rather covering operating costs, maintaining cash reserves, and keeping member dues low.  I'd think you, of all people, would recognize and respect those goals. 
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Rob Marshall

  • Total Karma: -4
Re: A question about greens fees these days
« Reply #28 on: Today at 09:53:56 AM »
Keep reading "the UK private clubs are so awesome because they allow outside play" but the more I hear seems in real-terms they are loosely slotted into the "semi-private" category, at best. 

Clubs that are solving for profitability, are not private, but rather public -- by definition.
Categorize it how you like, Chris, but the model (for the majority of UK clubs) is superior in virtually every way.  Additionally, they are not solving for profitability, but rather covering operating costs, maintaining cash reserves, and keeping member dues low.  I'd think you, of all people, would recognize and respect those goals.


Ben
Why is it superior in virtually every way?
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

Brian Finn

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: A question about greens fees these days
« Reply #29 on: Today at 12:18:22 PM »
Keep reading "the UK private clubs are so awesome because they allow outside play" but the more I hear seems in real-terms they are loosely slotted into the "semi-private" category, at best. 
 
 Clubs that are solving for profitability, are not private, but rather public -- by definition.
 
Categorize it how you like, Chris, but the model (for the majority of UK clubs) is superior in virtually every way.  Additionally, they are not solving for profitability, but rather covering operating costs, maintaining cash reserves, and keeping member dues low.  I'd think you, of all people, would recognize and respect those goals.
 

 Ben
 Why is it superior in virtually every way?
 
At the majority of the ~150 UK clubs I have visited, something along these lines occurs:
 - Visitors are welcome at select times - a big plus on its own, in my view
 - Visitor fees supplement club revenue - at the clubs typically mentioned here, the contribution is substantial
 - Annual dues (subscription) at the vast majority of UK clubs are far lower than in the US - this allows more people to join a club, and for some (still a minority, I imagine), multiple memberships - I view these as positives
 - Members have access to prime tee times, with weekends (Saturdays especially) usually reserved for member play
 - Golf is the focus - the golf course and playing golf are prioritized
 
I recognize the above is vastly oversimplified, and also based on rather limited experience, as an American who visits a couple of times per year.  I am also not privy to any club financials (other than joining fees and subscription costs, which most clubs post on their public websites), so my views may be taken with a grain of salt.  Additionally, clubs in the UK have a far different operating environment, as it pertains to items such as taxes, land cost, and many more of which I am surely unaware.  So, many holes may be poked in my simplistic view of UK clubs.
 
Additionally, I recognize that visitor demand continues to grow at the best-known clubs, such that members are sometimes being squeezed out of playing when they would like.  It seems this trend has spread into some clubs that might be referred to here as "2nd & 3rd tier."  Some clubs have now blocked a greater portion of their schedule strictly for member play (e.g. Elie closed to visitors for 45? days during the prime summer season) due to this dynamic.  So, again, I recognize that even my rose-colored view is not without issue.  In many ways, the market seems overheated, but I will save my short to medium term forecast for the golf-course “industry” for another time. 
 
In summary, I far prefer the model employed by most of the UK clubs that I have visited.  I acknowledge no model is perfect, and even attempt to point out some of the potential flaws, but this, like the vast majority of posts here, is just my opinion.  I think it is a fairly well-informed opinion, but understand many people have different preferences than my own.  I’ve attempted to focus on more concrete issues (e.g. $/£ and tee time availability), avoiding concepts that lean political for many people.
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