2025 Visitor Green Fees GB & Ireland

[Chris Hughes]

While folks generally seem to lament this inflation, I think it’s more important to remember that these private clubs are still providing access, and we should be extremely grateful for that. They don’t have to, I’m quite sure many of these clubs could fill up their tee sheets with guests.

I also think this is a moment where I would push again that there is no prominent rating/ranking system that considers access and value in their rating. As interest in quality golf architecture increases, I certainly think that would be a valuable metric for most people.

I have contended before that I think the current system of rating/ranking is designed to favor clubs over golfers. As prices increase to the point of not just to meeting demand, but actively reducing it, the concept of the value of an experience will become more useful than just highlighting architectural excellence. I realize these prices don’t affect the membership of this forum significantly, as many of us have non-trivial connections to clubs, but I just think that market incentives should reward lists that take value into account as this new pricing paradigm continues.

Again, always a big thank you to clubs out there that offer access when they don’t need to.

What you're describing there is a nice little semi-private operation...

[Ben Sims]

Appears Brora has their sights set on the upper ($) tier in Scotland...

At the current exchange rate Brora’s £160 prime time summer fee is almost exactly $200. Less than half of the $450avg Jeff quoted for his choice of 17 top tier Scottish courses. If their sights are set on the top tier as you say, they’re a bit off. Cruden Bay and Machrihanish are the only courses Jeff listed that’s within even a c note of Brora.

Brora was £29 in 2007 and I thought it was a great deal. The jump to the current fee is astronomical and catching up to the big boys in hurry after recent massive hikes. Mind you, I can understand some of the recent price rise. More £ needs to be budgeted to pay off the farmers for the grazing rights. Dornoch’s fee was £79.

Ciao

Sean,


I totally understand. One can have valid thoughts about Brora’s rise in prices without surmising that $200 is similar $450 as Chris did. Brora’s prices remain distinctly different from the top tier Scottish courses.

I didn't say they were "similar"...


...I did say Brora "has their sights set on the upper ($) tier" -- obviously this means at some point in the future.


The whole point of a "move up the rankings (to) be judged as a golf course rather than a field” is to justify charging rich American tourists more £££'s, right?

Once again into the breach on this most tedious of conversations.


I would categorically disagree with your “the whole point”. Perhaps the club realizes they’re more than a novelty. Maybe they think they’re the best Braid in Scotland. Maybe they think they’re clearly one of the top three north of the Cairngorm and want to be compensated as such. I have no idea. What I do know is that the club can charge what they want and the market will decide.


No one bats an eye when Western Gailes wants $350 per. 

[Chris Hughes]

Appears Brora has their sights set on the upper ($) tier in Scotland...

At the current exchange rate Brora’s £160 prime time summer fee is almost exactly $200. Less than half of the $450avg Jeff quoted for his choice of 17 top tier Scottish courses. If their sights are set on the top tier as you say, they’re a bit off. Cruden Bay and Machrihanish are the only courses Jeff listed that’s within even a c note of Brora.

Brora was £29 in 2007 and I thought it was a great deal. The jump to the current fee is astronomical and catching up to the big boys in hurry after recent massive hikes. Mind you, I can understand some of the recent price rise. More £ needs to be budgeted to pay off the farmers for the grazing rights. Dornoch’s fee was £79.

Ciao

Sean,


I totally understand. One can have valid thoughts about Brora’s rise in prices without surmising that $200 is similar $450 as Chris did. Brora’s prices remain distinctly different from the top tier Scottish courses.

I didn't say they were "similar"...


...I did say Brora "has their sights set on the upper ($) tier" -- obviously this means at some point in the future.


The whole point of a "move up the rankings (to) be judged as a golf course rather than a field” is to justify charging rich American tourists more £££'s, right?

Once again into the breach on this most tedious of conversations.  [I quite enjoy it.  ]

I would categorically disagree with your “the whole point”. Perhaps the club realizes they’re more than a novelty. Maybe they think they’re the best Braid in Scotland.  [Why would any of these spur club management to chase rankings?]

Maybe they think they’re clearly one of the top three north of the Cairngorm and want to be compensated as such.  [Bingo.  A higher ranking allows for a higher ask on the green fee -- chasing the benjamins.]

I have no idea.  [Here, we agree... ]

What I do know is that the club can charge what they want and the market will decide. [Yep. Will be interesting to track.]

No one bats an eye when Western Gailes wants $350 per.     [Brora wants some of that...  ]

Cheers mate...

[Ben Sims]

Chris,


Tell me, why *shouldn’t* a place capitalize on their product?


What do you know about Sutherland?

[Chris Hughes]

Chris,


Tell me, why *shouldn’t* a place capitalize on their product?  [Great question.  This "place" -- what are the stated goals for the organization?  And who is setting said goals?]


What do you know about Sutherland?  [Not much but eager to learn more, please do tell...]

[Brian_Ewen]

Trump Turnberry-2     [/color][/color]1240    97%

Only if you want the tee times reserved for hotel guests.

[Jeff Schley]

Trump Turnberry-2     1240    97%

Only if you want the tee times reserved for hotel guests.

Yes true, which seems to be anything before 2 pm.

[Adam Lawrence]

Chris,

Tell me, why *shouldn’t* a place capitalize on their product?  [Great question.  This "place" -- what are the stated goals for the organization?  And who is setting said goals?]

What do you know about Sutherland?  [Not much but eager to learn more, please do tell...]

The story of the Highlands is one of depopulation. After the failure of the Jacobite Rising in 1745/6, the clan chiefs started to turn from stewards of the land into landlords as we would understand the term, and they sought to increase the income from their holdings. This led to many thousands of Highlanders -- the best estimate is 150,000 over about 150 years -- being forcibly evicted from their ancestral lands, and in most cases, forced to emigrate, to Canada, America and Australasia mainly. Essentially the people were removed from the land to make way for sheep, which generated more income.

Sutherland was one of the most severely affected parts of the Highlands. The story of the Sutherland Clearances is absolutely horrible: James Hunter's book 'Set Adrift on the World' covers the story of Sutherland and is recommended, but it isn't easy reading. And the population has continued to plunge, as people, especially the young, have left the area in search of more opportunities. In 2020, only 61 babies were born in the whole of Sutherland, which has seen its population halve, to 13,000, in the last 150 years, which postdates the Clearances.

So any sources of strong economic activity in the Highlands generally are priceless. This is why Brora trying to maximise its economic potential is important to the area, and why the plans for Coul Links could be significant: a cluster of courses that includes Dornoch, Brora and Coul would draw significant money into the area and create a fair amount of opportunities for locals.

[Ben Sims]

Never do yourself what a talented writer can do for you. Big thanks Adam.


I’ve been wrestling with the topic for weeks and thinking of a respectful way to broach it that champions economic efforts in the area (not just golf, Diageo reopening Brora distillery next to Clynelish is solid as well). For what it’s worth, the average golfer spends about five to ten times what a NC500 traveler does per day in a given area.


Colorado is about the same population and size as Scotland. For years people have been whining about the rising daily fee at almost all of our ski areas. Funny thing is, I literally don’t know anyone that skis on a daily pass. As it applies to golf in Scotland, I think there’s a lesson to be learned.

[Brian_Ewen]

Trump Turnberry-2     1240    97%

Only if you want the tee times reserved for hotel guests.

Yes true, which seems to be anything before 2 pm.

I read it was 11am to 1pm.

[David_Tepper]

Adam & Ben -


I believe Sutherland is the largest county in Britain and is the only county that reaches across the entire island, with coastline on both the Atlantic Ocean and the North Sea. It has the lowest population density of any county in Britain. The current population is 2/3 to 3/4 of what it was 170 years ago.


Best of all, the stop light on the A9 thru "downtown" Golspie is the only one on any road in Sutherland.


Please correct me if I am mistaken about any of the above.


DT


https://www.nhshighland.scot.nhs.uk/media/5rfpcwpc/demography-sutherland-2022.pdf

[Chris Hughes]

Chris,

Tell me, why *shouldn’t* a place capitalize on their product?  [Great question.  This "place" -- what are the stated goals for the organization?  And who is setting said goals?]

What do you know about Sutherland?  [Not much but eager to learn more, please do tell...]

The story of the Highlands is one of depopulation. After the failure of the Jacobite Rising in 1745/6, the clan chiefs started to turn from stewards of the land into landlords as we would understand the term, and they sought to increase the income from their holdings. This led to many thousands of Highlanders -- the best estimate is 150,000 over about 150 years -- being forcibly evicted from their ancestral lands, and in most cases, forced to emigrate, to Canada, America and Australasia mainly. Essentially the people were removed from the land to make way for sheep, which generated more income.

Sutherland was one of the most severely affected parts of the Highlands. The story of the Sutherland Clearances is absolutely horrible: James Hunter's book 'Set Adrift on the World' covers the story of Sutherland and is recommended, but it isn't easy reading. And the population has continued to plunge, as people, especially the young, have left the area in search of more opportunities. In 2020, only 61 babies were born in the whole of Sutherland, which has seen its population halve, to 13,000, in the last 150 years, which postdates the Clearances.

So any sources of strong economic activity in the Highlands generally are priceless. This is why Brora trying to maximise its economic potential is important to the area, and why the plans for Coul Links could be significant: a cluster of courses that includes Dornoch, Brora and Coul would draw significant money into the area and create a fair amount of opportunities for locals.

Terrific information, thank you!


UP vote registered...

[Thomas Dai]

A couple of things to throw into the mix GB&I wise -


Clubs used to have lower greenfees in winter. There has been a trend recently to drop this or reduce the number of months it applies too.
Eng, Scot, Ire and Wales do not have reciprocal cheaper greenfees. If you’re from one of them and (unless you’re also a member in one of the others) you want to play at a Club in one of the others then it’s full greenfee.
Clubs have got a lot busier since Covid. Many clubs have tightened up on times when non-members can play, especially at weekends.
Other aspects relating to golf trips have increased in price too. Car hire being a particular example.


Atb

[David_Tepper]

Chris Hughes -


Have you been to the Scottish Highlands? Have you played any of the courses there?


DT

[Sean_A]

Chris,

Tell me, why *shouldn’t* a place capitalize on their product?  [Great question.  This "place" -- what are the stated goals for the organization?  And who is setting said goals?]

What do you know about Sutherland?  [Not much but eager to learn more, please do tell...]

The story of the Highlands is one of depopulation. After the failure of the Jacobite Rising in 1745/6, the clan chiefs started to turn from stewards of the land into landlords as we would understand the term, and they sought to increase the income from their holdings. This led to many thousands of Highlanders -- the best estimate is 150,000 over about 150 years -- being forcibly evicted from their ancestral lands, and in most cases, forced to emigrate, to Canada, America and Australasia mainly. Essentially the people were removed from the land to make way for sheep, which generated more income.

Sutherland was one of the most severely affected parts of the Highlands. The story of the Sutherland Clearances is absolutely horrible: James Hunter's book 'Set Adrift on the World' covers the story of Sutherland and is recommended, but it isn't easy reading. And the population has continued to plunge, as people, especially the young, have left the area in search of more opportunities. In 2020, only 61 babies were born in the whole of Sutherland, which has seen its population halve, to 13,000, in the last 150 years, which postdates the Clearances.

So any sources of strong economic activity in the Highlands generally are priceless. This is why Brora trying to maximise its economic potential is important to the area, and why the plans for Coul Links could be significant: a cluster of courses that includes Dornoch, Brora and Coul would draw significant money into the area and create a fair amount of opportunities for locals.

Thanks Adam. Do you think livestock removal from Brora will significantly impact population growth in Sutherland?

Ciao

[Adam Lawrence]

Chris,

Tell me, why *shouldn’t* a place capitalize on their product?  [Great question.  This "place" -- what are the stated goals for the organization?  And who is setting said goals?]

What do you know about Sutherland?  [Not much but eager to learn more, please do tell...]

The story of the Highlands is one of depopulation. After the failure of the Jacobite Rising in 1745/6, the clan chiefs started to turn from stewards of the land into landlords as we would understand the term, and they sought to increase the income from their holdings. This led to many thousands of Highlanders -- the best estimate is 150,000 over about 150 years -- being forcibly evicted from their ancestral lands, and in most cases, forced to emigrate, to Canada, America and Australasia mainly. Essentially the people were removed from the land to make way for sheep, which generated more income.

Sutherland was one of the most severely affected parts of the Highlands. The story of the Sutherland Clearances is absolutely horrible: James Hunter's book 'Set Adrift on the World' covers the story of Sutherland and is recommended, but it isn't easy reading. And the population has continued to plunge, as people, especially the young, have left the area in search of more opportunities. In 2020, only 61 babies were born in the whole of Sutherland, which has seen its population halve, to 13,000, in the last 150 years, which postdates the Clearances.

So any sources of strong economic activity in the Highlands generally are priceless. This is why Brora trying to maximise its economic potential is important to the area, and why the plans for Coul Links could be significant: a cluster of courses that includes Dornoch, Brora and Coul would draw significant money into the area and create a fair amount of opportunities for locals.

Thanks Adam. Do you think livestock removal from Brora will significantly impact population growth in Sutherland?

Ciao

Obviously not directly, but if Brora attracts more high-spending visitors then it will need more staff, and if there are more good jobs in the area, then...

[David_Tepper]

Sean -


Way too early to know what will happen at Brora, although I am sure I will play there more often once the livestock are gone.


But there is no doubt in my mind that the creation and success of Castle Stuart has greatly enhanced the golf-related economy of the northern Highlands. The trio of Castle Stuart, Nairn & Royal Dornoch is now a fixture on many Scottish golf tours (and has even begun to bring tour groups to Golspie!). Brora may join that trio and turn it into a quartet in the future.


The building/construction trade for joiners, electricians, plumbers, etc. in and around Dornoch is absolutely booming due to the renovation of the Dornoch Hotel, the building of the Royal Golf Apartments, two new housing developments and the new clubhouse.


The new Doak course at Cabot Highlands, an upgrade to the Struie at Dornoch and a possible Coore-Crenshaw course at Coul Links will continue the current growth trend.


See this article in the Northern Times:


https://www.northern-times.co.uk/sport/representatives-from-royal-dornoch-promote-highland-golf-to-372646/   


DT

[Sean_A]

Sean -


Way too early to know what will happen at Brora, although I am sure I will play there more often once the livestock are gone.


But there is no doubt in my mind that the creation and success of Castle Stuart has greatly enhanced the golf-related economy of the northern Highlands. The trio of Castle Stuart, Nairn & Royal Dornoch is now a fixture on many Scottish golf tours (and has even begun to bring tour groups to Golspie!). Brora may join that trio and turn it into a quartet in the future.


The building/construction trade for joiners, electricians, plumbers, etc. in and around Dornoch is absolutely booming due to the renovation of the Dornoch Hotel, the building of the Royal Golf Apartments, two new housing developments and the new clubhouse.


The new Doak course at Cabot Highlands, an upgrade to the Struie at Dornoch and a possible Coore-Crenshaw course at Coul Links will continue the current growth trend.


See this article in the Northern Times:


https://www.northern-times.co.uk/sport/representatives-from-royal-dornoch-promote-highland-golf-to-372646/   


DT

Thanks David. I am earnestly interested in the Brora question. I am skeptical of golf tourism as any sort of Highlands saviour, but I am willing to listen.

It is my understanding that Sutherland has seen a mild population growth (2-3%) since Covid… fueled mostly by folks of retirement age. Job growth in the area and thus population growth can’t be sustained by housing construction. There needs to be long term year round jobs for working age (especially of the child rearing age) people to sustain any meaningful population growth.

Out of interest, what percentage of population growth will be deemed as successful?

Ciao

[Ben Sims]

There is an interesting undertone developing. It seems to me that there is a contingent of contributors here that are sort of insinuating either directly or indirectly that clubs shouldn’t operate in their own best interest and/or in a way that benefits their locality. In raising visitor rates, clubs seem to be striking while the iron is hot with regard to visiting golfer interest.


These clubs are reacting to market forces. No one has yet described why a club bettering itself or charging more for visitors greens fees is inherently bad.

[David_Tepper]

Sean -
I do remember reading in The Economist at least 20 years ago that Inverness was one of the fastest (if not the fastest) growing cities in the UK. Some of the growth was being driven by the rise of telecommuting and people in the central belt selling their highly appreciated homes there to buy much cheaper homes in the Highlands. I am sure there are now more flights daily between Inverness and London than there were 15-20 years ago.

Yes, some of the people who move to the Highlands are retirees. The population demographics in the Highlands do skew towards the elderly (like me!). More good paying jobs are needed to attract younger people and more affordable housing needs to be built so they can have a place to live.

Yes, some of the golf-related jobs are seasonal. It will be interesting to see if Cabot/Castle Stuart stays open for a longer season once the 2nd course is up and running. However, there is not much anyone can do about the shorter daylight hours during the winter months.
As a tourist attraction, I think the North Coast 500 has been more successful than expected. Anyone in the business of renting out camper vans must be doing very well.

I do not know if there is a "target" for population growth or what that target might be.
My guess is some other areas in the UK have similar problems. There are areas in the U.S. facing the same issues as well.

DT     

 

[Tom_Doak]

The top 100 lists are a huge factor in these prices.  They exist as a sort of price-fixing mechanism, the same as that software app that tells landlords what they can charge for rent . . . effectively allowing them to collude on prices instead of competing.


As far as I know, I'm the only one on this DG who actually has input on the price of one of these courses, as a part owner of St. Patrick's.  For that discussion, you should know that the price for 2025 had to be set in January of 2024, because that's when the tour operators want the rate.  So inflation etc. have less to do with setting the price, and projection has more to do with it.


I'm pleased to see that St. Patrick's raised its rates by 12% and we are still below the green fees of the other Irish courses in the top 100.  We will take that under advisement for 2026!  But you should also know that St. Patrick's did more than 50% of its business in 2024 at the Irish Golf Union rate, which is less than 100 euros.


Also - one of the things that keeps the prices so high is SCARCITY.  Member clubs like Portrush, County Down, and Lahinch cap the number of visitor rounds they'll take on each year, which sets the price per round artificially high.  St. Patrick's does not have the fallback of member rounds, but since most golfers who come there are part of tours, the number of rounds from Americans is effectively capped by the quotas decided upon by other Irish clubs.

[Chris Hughes]

Chris Hughes -


Have you been to the Scottish Highlands? Have you played any of the courses there?


DT

No.

[Chris Hughes]

Chris,

Tell me, why *shouldn’t* a place capitalize on their product?  [Great question.  This "place" -- what are the stated goals for the organization?  And who is setting said goals?]

What do you know about Sutherland?  [Not much but eager to learn more, please do tell...]

The story of the Highlands is one of depopulation. After the failure of the Jacobite Rising in 1745/6, the clan chiefs started to turn from stewards of the land into landlords as we would understand the term, and they sought to increase the income from their holdings. This led to many thousands of Highlanders -- the best estimate is 150,000 over about 150 years -- being forcibly evicted from their ancestral lands, and in most cases, forced to emigrate, to Canada, America and Australasia mainly. Essentially the people were removed from the land to make way for sheep, which generated more income.

Sutherland was one of the most severely affected parts of the Highlands. The story of the Sutherland Clearances is absolutely horrible: James Hunter's book 'Set Adrift on the World' covers the story of Sutherland and is recommended, but it isn't easy reading. And the population has continued to plunge, as people, especially the young, have left the area in search of more opportunities. In 2020, only 61 babies were born in the whole of Sutherland, which has seen its population halve, to 13,000, in the last 150 years, which postdates the Clearances.

So any sources of strong economic activity in the Highlands generally are priceless. This is why Brora trying to maximise its economic potential is important to the area, and why the plans for Coul Links could be significant: a cluster of courses that includes Dornoch, Brora and Coul would draw significant money into the area and create a fair amount of opportunities for locals.

Thanks Adam. Do you think livestock removal from Brora will significantly impact population growth in Sutherland?

Ciao

Obviously not directly, but if Brora attracts more high-spending visitors then it will need more staff, and if there are more good jobs in the area, then...

You really think so?  How many more?  What's next, a new clubhouse?

[Chris Hughes]

There is an interesting undertone developing. It seems to me that there is a contingent of contributors here that are sort of insinuating either directly or indirectly that clubs shouldn’t operate in their own best interest and/or in a way that benefits their locality. In raising visitor rates, clubs seem to be striking while the iron is hot with regard to visiting golfer interest.


These clubs are reacting to market forces. No one has yet described why a club bettering itself or charging more for visitors greens fees is inherently bad.

Aaaahh, now I see what's going on...


The greenskeeper has an altruistic bent and wants to exit the majestic Highland cows (and the sheep) in order to create jobs and attract new residents!


Cannot believe I missed that before... 

[Ben Sims]

Chris,


Can you tell me your position on this subject? Or are you picking nits for your amusement?