News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Andy Silis

  • Total Karma: 2
Links Magazine World Top 100
« on: January 17, 2025, 12:50:55 PM »
https://linksmagazine.com/the-links-100/

Number one head scratcher for me was Pete Dye Golf Club (50) ranked ahead of SF Club (51) and Seminole (65).

Matt Schoolfield

  • Total Karma: -17
Re: Links Magazine World Top 100
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2025, 01:20:35 PM »
I guess I'm a bit confused by Links Magazine ranking true parkland courses. I could understand them ranking links-like courses (and ranking them lower), but it just feels weird seeing Augusta and pals on this list.

Did really enjoy the RCD over TOC statement. That's some fun drama.

Andy Silis

  • Total Karma: 2
Re: Links Magazine World Top 100
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2025, 01:24:39 PM »
Links is just the name they chose for their magazine. No correlation to being a magazine devoted to Links courses.

Matt Schoolfield

  • Total Karma: -17
Re: Links Magazine World Top 100
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2025, 01:28:36 PM »
Links is just the name they chose for their magazine. No correlation to being a magazine devoted to Links courses.

Huh... I did not know that.

Jim Hoak

  • Total Karma: 6
Re: Links Magazine World Top 100
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2025, 01:45:07 PM »
Just another example of the term "links" being misused to characterize courses that are clearly not links.  I don't consider this to be really one of the bigger problems facing golf or the world!  But it is often annoying--and can lead to Green Committees making dumb decisions with regard to course conditioning practices, seeking to achieve links-like conditions where that is not remotely possible or desirable.  For example, making a course "firmer and faster" may be desirable in most cases, but trying to achieve links-like firmness and speed on courses without sandy soil is often counter-productive and silly.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2025, 01:54:19 PM by Jim Hoak »

Mark Kiely

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Links Magazine World Top 100
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2025, 01:48:13 PM »
Seems most rankings throughout my lifetime have Riviera and LACC North within a few spots of each other. Riv is ranked well ahead here -- 39 vs. 72.

I haven't played either so this isn't a comment on either course; just my observation as a SoCal resident who has always found it interesting that those two courses are typically ranked very near each other.
My golf course photo albums on Flickr: https://goo.gl/dWPF9z

Ally Mcintosh

  • Total Karma: 6
Re: Links Magazine World Top 100
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2025, 02:36:22 PM »
The order of my thoughts as I scrawled through:


1. This seems almost exactly like all other rankings… then…
2. The panel has more Australian contributors than most other World rankings… then…
3. There are a handful of real outliers / strange decisions… then…
4. Shows that how you choose your panel can result in very different outcomes.

Tommy Williamsen

  • Total Karma: 2
Re: Links Magazine World Top 100
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2025, 04:32:20 PM »
The order of my thoughts as I scrawled through:

4. Shows that how you choose your panel can result in very different outcomes.


Boy is that true. There are a few head-scratchers on this list.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Jim Sherma

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Links Magazine World Top 100
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2025, 05:23:34 PM »
Only three Donald Ross courses. Feels low, although likely the case of there being a few hundred top-100 courses.

John Handley

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Links Magazine World Top 100
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2025, 05:35:15 PM »
Overall I think they did a pretty good job with the list.  Of course there are a few head scratchers (never heard of the course in Vietnam before) and it seems to be super heavy on Pete Dye courses and Australia/NZ.  But that is what makes these lists fun for those who care or care to read at least.


I was stunned to see LACC ranked so low and Kiawah island Ocean ranked so high.  I would have flipped those. :)

2025 Line Up: Cal Club, Spanish Oaks GC, Luling, Tree Farm, Old Barnwell, Moortown, Alwoodley, Ganton, Woodhall Spa, Brancaster, Hunstanton, Sherwood Forest, Hollinwell....so far.

Jeff Schley

  • Total Karma: -4
Re: Links Magazine World Top 100
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2025, 05:19:20 AM »
So didn't realize this:
Welcome to The LINKS 100, the newest and most distinctive ranking of the world’s top 100 golf courses. Why do we at LINKS Magazine believe this is the most authoritative tabulation of golf’s most elite layouts? Because the only voters were architects—specifically, members of the American Society of Golf Course Architects (ASGCA), the European Institute of Golf Course Architects (EIGCA), and the Society of Australian Golf Course Architects (SAGCA).

Now some notes:
  • NO Japan courses. Big oversight IMO.
  • While quite a few Australian courses (Cape Wickham high, which I agree), NO Ellerston which is high in other rankings.
  • Includes Hoiana Shores in Vietnam (RTJII) as the sole Asia course.
  • 5 Pete Dye courses in the top 50 (7 overall), which for a world list is an outlier.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Jim_Coleman

  • Total Karma: 2
Re: Links Magazine World Top 100
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2025, 05:32:27 AM »
   Nice to see Teeth of the Dog so high, although the list has quite a Dye bias compared to other rankings.

Jonathan Cummings

  • Total Karma: -3
Re: Links Magazine World Top 100
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2025, 09:11:57 AM »
So didn't realize this:
Welcome to The LINKS 100, the newest and most distinctive ranking of the world’s top 100 golf courses. Why do we at LINKS Magazine believe this is the most authoritative tabulation of golf’s most elite layouts? Because the only voters were architects—specifically, members of the American Society of Golf Course Architects (ASGCA), the European Institute of Golf Course Architects (EIGCA), and the Society of Australian Golf Course Architects (SAGCA).

Now some notes:
  • NO Japan courses. Big oversight IMO.
  • While quite a few Australian courses (Cape Wickham high, which I agree), NO Ellerston which is high in other rankings.
  • Includes Hoiana Shores in Vietnam (RTJII) as the sole Asia course.
  • 5 Pete Dye courses in the top 50 (7 overall), which for a world list is an outlier.


They suffer from way too few votes and exposure.  Hoiana over Shanqin, Hirono, Naruo and South Cape Owners in Asia???  You must be chittin me....

Ryan Book

  • Total Karma: -14
Re: Links Magazine World Top 100
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2025, 11:18:01 AM »
Numerous have noted the emphasis on Dye, and a few have pointed out that the panel for this exercise was comprised entirely of member of various architect organizations. I'm curious if courses that involved more "oomph" gathered more praise BECAUSE of the emphasized role of the architect. I'm thinking of examples like Whistling Straits and PDGC, where a heavy hand was necessary for such a project. Granted, any self-respecting ranking of courses could not cast out "minimalist" efforts entirely, but they may shade toward land-movers nonetheless.


Another theory, at least on the American side of things, is that few architects have had more direct involvement in the creation of other standalone architects than Dye, and there's a deference there as well. I know the Coores and Doaks aren't members of the ASGCA but I'm sure at least a few of his former employees took part in this exercise.   
"Cops are an abomination." - C.B. Macdonald and/or Jello Biafra

@BethpageBlackMetal

Mark_Fine

  • Total Karma: -3
Re: Links Magazine World Top 100
« Reply #14 on: Yesterday at 01:40:06 PM »
For me the list would be just as useful if they put the courses in Alphabetical order as I am mainly looking for courses I haven’t yet played or might not know about and these lists help get them on my radar screen. I could care less if a course is 26 or 82.  If a course somehow made the list, it probably is worth my checking out if I get the chance.  No list will ever accurately put the courses in correct sequence because it is not possible when the criteria for rating is subjective.  I wish we’d get over that.

Thomas Dai

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Links Magazine World Top 100
« Reply #15 on: Yesterday at 01:57:07 PM »
Listings like this are imo purely indicative.
They can however, be a useful tool for those wishing to explore different venues.

Of course they change if and when new courses of appropriate merit are built or yee oldies upgraded.
Regrettably I suspect some are influenced by commercial or business arrangements.
A couple of years ago someone took several different rankings and averaged them. This seemed to produce a somewhat more equitable overall ranking than the usual approach.
Atb
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 02:45:15 PM by Thomas Dai »

Jeff_Brauer

  • Total Karma: 3
Re: Links Magazine World Top 100
« Reply #16 on: Yesterday at 02:38:13 PM »
Numerous have noted the emphasis on Dye, and a few have pointed out that the panel for this exercise was comprised entirely of member of various architect organizations. I'm curious if courses that involved more "oomph" gathered more praise BECAUSE of the emphasized role of the architect. I'm thinking of examples like Whistling Straits and PDGC, where a heavy hand was necessary for such a project. Granted, any self-respecting ranking of courses could not cast out "minimalist" efforts entirely, but they may shade toward land-movers nonetheless.


Another theory, at least on the American side of things, is that few architects have had more direct involvement in the creation of other standalone architects than Dye, and there's a deference there as well. I know the Coores and Doaks aren't members of the ASGCA but I'm sure at least a few of his former employees took part in this exercise.   

Bill Coore is a member of ASGCA, and Ben is an honorary member by virtue of winning the Ross Award (with Bill).

They asked architects from all parts of the world and they came out like they came out.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Ally Mcintosh

  • Total Karma: 6
Re: Links Magazine World Top 100
« Reply #17 on: Yesterday at 03:10:10 PM »
Don’t forget Adam Lawrence did this same thing a number of years ago, creating a Top-100 list only from panelists who were architects.


It is worlds apart from this Links Magazine list, once again showing how choosing your panel has a dramatic effect on the outcome:


https://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/digital/magazine/architects-choice/6/

Mike_Clayton

  • Total Karma: 5
Re: Links Magazine World Top 100
« Reply #18 on: Yesterday at 04:20:56 PM »
So didn't realize this:
Welcome to The LINKS 100, the newest and most distinctive ranking of the world’s top 100 golf courses. Why do we at LINKS Magazine believe this is the most authoritative tabulation of golf’s most elite layouts? Because the only voters were architects—specifically, members of the American Society of Golf Course Architects (ASGCA), the European Institute of Golf Course Architects (EIGCA), and the Society of Australian Golf Course Architects (SAGCA).

Now some notes:
  • NO Japan courses. Big oversight IMO.
  • While quite a few Australian courses (Cape Wickham high, which I agree), NO Ellerston which is high in other rankings.
  • Includes Hoiana Shores in Vietnam (RTJII) as the sole Asia course.
  • 5 Pete Dye courses in the top 50 (7 overall), which for a world list is an outlier.


Elleston isn't on any lists now - now almost literally no one can play it..  The superintendent just went to Barnbougle because he wasn't allowed to play the course.

Ira Fishman

  • Total Karma: 3
Re: Links Magazine World Top 100
« Reply #19 on: Yesterday at 06:04:42 PM »
Of the courses I have been fortunate enough to play, Somerset Hills and Ballyneal are pretty glaring omissions.

Michael Morandi

  • Total Karma: -2
Re: Links Magazine World Top 100
« Reply #20 on: Yesterday at 07:14:02 PM »
Maybe not a great comparison, but these course rankings remind me of the best college rankings. There are some top ranked courses that I wouldn’t want as my home course, just as there are some highly ranked universities I wouldn’t want to attend. But I understand the need to rate and to set standards. In the end, the best course and the best college is the one that’s best for you. I’m lucky to have gone to a top university and be a member of a highly ranked course, both of which are/were right for me. But before either entered my life I was at clubs and colleges off most people’s radar and they were best for me at the time.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 07:30:44 PM by Michael Morandi »

HarryBrinkerhoffDoyleIV_aka_Barry

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Links Magazine World Top 100
« Reply #21 on: Today at 11:21:15 AM »
So didn't realize this:
Welcome to The LINKS 100, the newest and most distinctive ranking of the world’s top 100 golf courses. Why do we at LINKS Magazine believe this is the most authoritative tabulation of golf’s most elite layouts? Because the only voters were architects—specifically, members of the American Society of Golf Course Architects (ASGCA), the European Institute of Golf Course Architects (EIGCA), and the Society of Australian Golf Course Architects (SAGCA).

Now some notes:
  • NO Japan courses. Big oversight IMO.
  • While quite a few Australian courses (Cape Wickham high, which I agree), NO Ellerston which is high in other rankings.
  • Includes Hoiana Shores in Vietnam (RTJII) as the sole Asia course.
  • 5 Pete Dye courses in the top 50 (7 overall), which for a world list is an outlier.


Elleston isn't on any lists now - now almost literally no one can play it..  The superintendent just went to Barnbougle because he wasn't allowed to play the course.


Mike - any idea what is going on there?  I heard the few members they introduced a few years ago had their memberships cancelled.  Association with the casino has been cancelled as well.  Have they hired a replacement super?  Is the course being maintained?  Will it continue to exist?  Is the daughter driving all decisions there now?  Does she golf?

PCCraig

  • Total Karma: -4
Re: Links Magazine World Top 100
« Reply #22 on: Today at 02:09:50 PM »
Yeamans Hall is wonderful but it is not a Top 40 in the world course. That was the biggest headscratcher for me.
H.P.S.

MCirba

  • Total Karma: 13
Re: Links Magazine World Top 100
« Reply #23 on: Today at 04:11:13 PM »
Of the courses I have been fortunate enough to play, Somerset Hills and Ballyneal are pretty glaring omissions.


Sinful.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/