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David_Tepper

  • Total Karma: 0
Angela Moser Video
« on: January 15, 2025, 01:57:03 PM »
Fried Egg video posted on youtube yesterday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=841wyjWQ4C0

Marty Bonnar

  • Total Karma: 10
Re: Angela Moser Video
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2025, 06:01:53 PM »
I wish Angela would find some time to Post here - even if only occasionally. I’m sure she would bring some very interesting insights from the frontline. Maybe Tom should write into her Contract of Employment that she HAS to post here at least once a year!? ;D
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Angela Moser

  • Total Karma: 18
Re: Angela Moser Video
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2025, 06:23:01 PM »
What would you like to know?


I read mostly and keep my chuckles of  „I am Banksy“ to myself. 😉

PThomas

  • Total Karma: -10
Re: Angela Moser Video
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2025, 06:46:06 PM »
I like a woman who uses salty language sometimes (as someone who does more than a little)


I enjoyed Pinehurst #10 Angela, congrats!
« Last Edit: January 15, 2025, 06:54:46 PM by PThomas »
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Ben Sims

  • Total Karma: 7
Re: Angela Moser Video
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2025, 10:00:37 PM »
In a few weird months in what seems like a lifetime ago, I got to meet and hang with a generation of future stars via Tom. Zach, Brett, Jeff, Blake, Clyde, and Angela.


One morning at the continental breakfast at an airport hotel in PDX, Tom asked if I’d give his intern Angela a ride in my rental car to Bandon. I was pretty pumped at the time cause 1) I love Germany and could ask her lots of questions and 2) she’s in the business of golf architecture and I could ask her about that too.


I don’t know if Tom did this on purpose or not but spending time one-on-one with his associates and interns was a sure-fire way to dissuade me from trying to enter the business. Angela played her part well and after five hours in the car I knew straight away I wasn’t on the level required!


Thanks for linking that video David.

Tom_Doak

  • Total Karma: 12
Re: Angela Moser Video
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2025, 10:35:57 PM »
Ben:  I didn’t do that to you deliberately, but when I get letters from 40- and 50-year-old guys wanting to pivot to golf course design, that’s exactly what I should do . . . put them in the car with a 25-year-old who is way ahead of them.

Tom_Doak

  • Total Karma: 12
Re: Angela Moser Video
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2025, 10:37:29 PM »
I wish Angela would find some time to Post here - even if only occasionally. I’m sure she would bring some very interesting insights from the frontline. Maybe Tom should write into her Contract of Employment that she HAS to post here at least once a year!? ;D


Marty:


Angela is not under contract to me, but you should have suggested this before she got her visa renewed to work in the USA, they could have attached all kinds of conditions!

Ira Fishman

  • Total Karma: 3
Re: Angela Moser Video
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2025, 02:36:43 AM »
What would you like to know?


I read mostly and keep my chuckles of  „I am Banksy“ to myself. 😉


Hilarious and spot on.

Matt Schoolfield

  • Total Karma: -17
Re: Angela Moser Video
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2025, 04:51:28 AM »
Angela, in the clip you talk about golf in Germany when you were young, but it's never really addressed again. Do you know if German golf culture or golf architecture there has change significantly since you started your career?

There is also discussion of the five Golden Age courses (which I'll be promptly be updating on the wiki): Aachener • Bergisch Land • Berlin-Wannsee • Frankfurter • Hamburger. Are there any modern courses in Germany there that are especially notable to you?

Marty Bonnar

  • Total Karma: 10
Re: Angela Moser Video
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2025, 05:24:26 AM »
What would you like to know?


I read mostly and keep my chuckles of  „I am Banksy“ to myself. 😉


Nice video. I think “whack the sh*t out of it” might be the single best piece of architectural advice ever. I’d copyright that if I were you!
I hadn’t been aware of your Landscape Architecture background before. That’s where I came from (and ended up staying in most of my career!) I also struggled with getting less hands-on the further up the ladder I went. Try not to ever lose that.
So, how much drawing do you do now? Are you doing less detailing and just sorting things out on the ground?
How much of your work is influenced by your LA education - or have you had to forget most of that!?
Good luck with the Women’s National idea. That would be truly awesome!
Cheers,
MB.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Adam Lawrence

  • Total Karma: 4
Re: Angela Moser Video
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2025, 05:32:10 AM »

Angela, in the clip you talk about golf in Germany when you were young, but it's never really addressed again. Do you know if German golf culture or golf architecture there has change significantly since you started your career?

There is also discussion of the five Golden Age courses (which I'll be promptly be updating on the wiki): Aachener • Bergisch Land • Berlin-Wannsee • Frankfurter • Hamburger. Are there any modern courses in Germany there that are especially notable to you?
It's changing, but only slowly. There are some little shoots of a golf architecture revival in Germany, but they are small. The two best modern courses I have seen in Germany are Budersand, on the island of Sylt, off the north-west coast, where first-time architect Rolf-Stephan Hansen created a pretty decent links course (and associated resort; the hotel is lovely) on the site of an old airbase; all the concrete was ripped up, revealing the underlying sand (Sylt, and the nearby islands are basically sandbars), which was reshaped to recreate a dunes landscape, which it would have been before. On the nearby island of Föhr, the golf club celebrates its centenary this year, but the course is not a hundred years old. The club began on another site, where Bernhard von Limburger built its first course, but it was revived in the 1960s on another piece of land, when Frank Pennink built a new nine holes. The course was extended to eighteen by the locals to a routing provided by Don Harradine, and the young German architect Christian Althaus built a third nine fifteen years ago. Since then, Christian has rebuilt the other two nines, so the course is now entirely his, and in my opinion it is excellent work. The third nine, on sandy farmland that would presumably have been dune heath before it was farmed, was built with a dunelond theme; the two reworked nines are at least partially treed, so the shaping is more subtle, but I think it is very good. Christian is a good friend of mine, and I believe he is a real talent.Elsewhere off the German coast is the island of Norderney, which has an eighteen hole links course that dates originally from the early 1920s. I haven't seen it but would like to -- I know Angela took Ran there last year.Another stirring is in the golf media. Sometime GCAer Emil Weber, along with Mark Horyna, has founded the magazine Depeche Golf, which is based in Germany but which has a pan-European outlook. It's sort of a would-be European Golfer's Journal or McKellar, and I think it has a lot of potential.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Thomas Dai

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Angela Moser Video
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2025, 11:22:51 AM »
A fine wee piece. Thank you Angela for participating in it.
Atb

John Mayhugh

  • Total Karma: -4
Re: Angela Moser Video
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2025, 12:35:41 PM »
I really enjoyed the video when TFE posted it.
I would love to see Women's National Golf & Tennis Club restored. Such a cool dream.






Sean_A

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Angela Moser Video
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2025, 12:45:58 PM »
I really enjoyed the video when TFE posted it.
I would love to see Women's National Golf & Tennis Club restored. Such a cool dream.

Or, if not possible, a new course design with short hitters in mind.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2025: Ludlow, Machrihanish Dunes, Dunaverty and Carradale

Angela Moser

  • Total Karma: 18
Re: Angela Moser Video
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2025, 05:42:52 PM »
In a few weird months in what seems like a lifetime ago, I got to meet and hang with a generation of future stars via Tom. Zach, Brett, Jeff, Blake, Clyde, and Angela.


One morning at the continental breakfast at an airport hotel in PDX, Tom asked if I’d give his intern Angela a ride in my rental car to Bandon. I was pretty pumped at the time cause 1) I love Germany and could ask her lots of questions and 2) she’s in the business of golf architecture and I could ask her about that too.


I don’t know if Tom did this on purpose or not but spending time one-on-one with his associates and interns was a sure-fire way to dissuade me from trying to enter the business. Angela played her part well and after five hours in the car I knew straight away I wasn’t on the level required!


Thanks for linking that video David.


That feels like a lifetime ago... I enjoyed meeting you, Ben. You made it really easy to be in a car with you for 5h.
I remember how overwhelmed I was meeting the whole crew and seeing/playing my first golf courses in the US. Not a bad place to start your GCA journey  ;)




Angela Moser

  • Total Karma: 18
Re: Angela Moser Video
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2025, 06:55:01 PM »
Angela, in the clip you talk about golf in Germany when you were young, but it's never really addressed again. Do you know if German golf culture or golf architecture there has change significantly since you started your career?

There is also discussion of the five Golden Age courses (which I'll be promptly be updating on the wiki): Aachener • Bergisch Land • Berlin-Wannsee • Frankfurter • Hamburger. Are there any modern courses in Germany there that are especially notable to you?


Matt:


Yes, the culture changed a bit. While I was one of roughly a dozen girls in Bavaria who played golf back then with a single hcp, the playing field is packed these days. And they start young and get ridiculously good so quickly. One of the pictures used by TFE showed me in my early 20s playing for my club team. My teammates were all around 8 years younger, and their handicaps were between a +5 and 4. Golf is getting more accepted as it gets more accessible.


Unfortunately, the Media hasn't really changed. Golf is only getting covered on pay-TV. There is no coverage on the daily news show when Bernhard Langer won the PNC after recovering from the Achilles injury... Does it belong in the daily news? Well... you could make an argument if 99% of the covered sports have to be Bundesliga news about which trainer switched clubs or who BM is possibly considering. Germany has some great golfers and other athletes who rock in their sports but hardly get the recognition.


Regarding the "Golden Age" courses: There are a few more than just those five from that era, but Colt / Morrison was involved in the above-mentioned. Don't get your hopes up:
Aachener still has the original 9 holes and greens, most of the bunkering was lost. Trees were planted in between the holes (destroying angles) and they re-routed the course when it was extended into 18 holes in 1977 by Pennink. While Colt recommended extending to the West, Pennink went East with a tight property. As a safety buffer, he planted more trees  ???  In the years that I consulted there, I tried to convince the club to restore all of the original bunkers and open up some views in between the holes/cut trees. Unfortunately, I got replaced by Martin Ebert as the club wanted to go in a different direction and account for the new equipment/young golfers hitting it a mile. Plus, my name isn't as big and fancy as Martin Ebert/the new open-doctor.


Bergisch Land is a beautiful course, but it had some work done by BvLimburger (Limmy). I heard a rumor that the "Colt-Expert Team" had been hired to do a "Restoration." One can only assume that they put three bunkers around every green, as that is what they think Colt always did.


Berlin-Wannsee was originally designed by Butchart, but Colt was mentioned to be involved there too. When I visited the course, they were in full renovation mode with re-shaping all greens and bunkers. Unfortunately, they didn't really dig into their history and respect or understand what gem they had. The bunkering was awful the last time I was there. The contractor didn't encounter to over excavate the bunker floors as they were installing better billy bunkers. So the gravel layer was the level where the sand should have been and the sand often tied into the top of the bunker face...


Frankfurter was a fantastic course until a well-known German Architect nuked its greens. The course needs some tree clearing to bring back the heather, and one can only hope that the club has historic documents to restore the greens to their former glory. Rumor has it that the "Colt-Expert Team" has their foot in the door.


Hamburger-Falkenstein is a fantastic course. It went through a few changes over the years when BvLimburger changed the first green and moved the second hole down into a former quarry pit to make room for a practice range. He also lengthened the 13th and former 15th (now 14th) to remove the former short par-3 14th and added a weird downhill par-3 15th. He then moved the tees on the 16th to the left, which used to play further from the right, hugging the hill that BvL used for the par-3. They need to cut a lot more trees to get the heather back to flourish. The many bunker restorations have failed - recent tries included by the "Colt-Expert Team". The mowing lines on the greens need to be extended desperately. Hands down, it is the best course in Germany and has an incredible routing on a wonderful piece of property.



Angela Moser

  • Total Karma: 18
Re: Angela Moser Video
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2025, 07:11:40 PM »

Angela, in the clip you talk about golf in Germany when you were young, but it's never really addressed again. Do you know if German golf culture or golf architecture there has change significantly since you started your career?

There is also discussion of the five Golden Age courses (which I'll be promptly be updating on the wiki): Aachener • Bergisch Land • Berlin-Wannsee • Frankfurter • Hamburger. Are there any modern courses in Germany there that are especially notable to you?
It's changing, but only slowly. There are some little shoots of a golf architecture revival in Germany, but they are small. The two best modern courses I have seen in Germany are Budersand, on the island of Sylt, off the north-west coast, where first-time architect Rolf-Stephan Hansen created a pretty decent links course (and associated resort; the hotel is lovely) on the site of an old airbase; all the concrete was ripped up, revealing the underlying sand (Sylt, and the nearby islands are basically sandbars), which was reshaped to recreate a dunes landscape, which it would have been before. On the nearby island of Föhr, the golf club celebrates its centenary this year, but the course is not a hundred years old. The club began on another site, where Bernhard von Limburger built its first course, but it was revived in the 1960s on another piece of land, when Frank Pennink built a new nine holes. The course was extended to eighteen by the locals to a routing provided by Don Harradine, and the young German architect Christian Althaus built a third nine fifteen years ago. Since then, Christian has rebuilt the other two nines, so the course is now entirely his, and in my opinion it is excellent work. The third nine, on sandy farmland that would presumably have been dune heath before it was farmed, was built with a dunelond theme; the two reworked nines are at least partially treed, so the shaping is more subtle, but I think it is very good. Christian is a good friend of mine, and I believe he is a real talent.Elsewhere off the German coast is the island of Norderney, which has an eighteen hole links course that dates originally from the early 1920s. I haven't seen it but would like to -- I know Angela took Ran there last year.Another stirring is in the golf media. Sometime GCAer Emil Weber, along with Mark Horyna, has founded the magazine Depeche Golf, which is based in Germany but which has a pan-European outlook. It's sort of a would-be European Golfer's Journal or McKellar, and I think it has a lot of potential.


Adam:


Budersand is a prestigious club and has a wonderful hotel and spa, which I hope you were hosted at. The golf course is a missed opportunity, especially on such a site and ground.


Föhr is a great Island, and the golf course sits beautifully on the ground. Christian's renovation work made the course 100% better. With fewer trees, the wind will come into play, and the fescue playing conditions will improve tremendously. Christian is very talented and has the right mindset, but every time I see his work, I get the sense that he is limited by the talent of the contractors.


Norderney is a nine-hole golf course that used to be twelve, routed through stunning dunes. It was built in 1928 and is the only true links golf course in Germany. It is barely surviving and is looking for an investor.

Matt Schoolfield

  • Total Karma: -17
Re: Angela Moser Video
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2025, 07:25:36 PM »
Yes, the culture changed a bit. While I was one of roughly a dozen girls in Bavaria who played golf back then with a single hcp, the playing field is packed these days. And they start young and get ridiculously good so quickly. One of the pictures used by TFE showed me in my early 20s playing for my club team. My teammates were all around 8 years younger, and their handicaps were between a +5 and 4. Golf is getting more accepted as it gets more accessible.


Unfortunately, the Media hasn't really changed. Golf is only getting covered on pay-TV. There is no coverage on the daily news show when Bernhard Langer won the PNC after recovering from the Achilles injury... Does it belong in the daily news? Well... you could make an argument if 99% of the covered sports have to be Bundesliga news about which trainer switched clubs or who BM is possibly considering. Germany has some great golfers and other athletes who rock in their sports but hardly get the recognition.

Thanks for this.

What are your thoughts on the Platzreife (required golf license)? My understanding is that these types of licenses exist in France, Belgium, and the Netherlands as well, but aren't as strict or necessary. The reason why I ask is that I've always been curious on whether or they help or harm golf culture in their respective countries, but I've not spent a significant amount of time in one of those places to really see the effects.

---

On a personal note, if you every find yourself on a job in Central Texas (where I grew up), all of the Germans I've shown around have been pleasantly surprised by the German heritage that influences the culture there. It's certainly not anything "authentic," but it's definitely a big influence. The dialect was my grandfather's first language.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2025, 07:38:01 PM by Matt Schoolfield »

Angela Moser

  • Total Karma: 18
Re: Angela Moser Video
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2025, 09:22:54 PM »

What are your thoughts on the Platzreife (required golf license)? My understanding is that these types of licenses exist in France, Belgium, and the Netherlands as well, but aren't as strict or necessary. The reason why I ask is that I've always been curious on whether or they help or harm golf culture in their respective countries, but I've not spent a significant amount of time in one of those places to really see the effects.
Well, there are always more sides to it, right?

I want to look at it from a different angle, as (in Germany) you will be placed in a group and get through a few days of teaching principles of the golf swing on the range, on the short game area, and on the putting green. The golf course has evening "lessons" about rules and etiquette. When I grew up, it was more of a club chairmen's and pro's responsibility to teach and influence the behavior on the golf course. After a few days/weeks (back then), you played a few holes and hoped you would play better than the required score (practical part). And then you had somewhat of a rules test (theoretical part) to get your "license". It proves to other golf courses that you know your way around a golf course and respect the course and players without absolutely demolishing it.The handicap was sometimes an indicator of what courses you could not play. I remember courses were limited to golfers with a handicap of 28 or better, possibly due to forced carries.I don't know where Germany is with that now. A lot of the etiquette is a bit lost... but it doesn't matter where you look; the etiquette is fading.However, There are public courses that everyone is welcome to play without a license (often operators). With a license or proof of handicap, you can play almost any golf course in Germany for a green fee, even if it is a Member Club.
It is good that some sort of a crash course is required to let you onto the big boy's golf course. But it would be great to build a few 6-hole courses or even putting courses around some cities to invite everyone to the game we all love so much. Mind you, I would not have picked up golf if it wasn't for a summer holiday program of my city I grew up in.

Ally Mcintosh

  • Total Karma: 6
Re: Angela Moser Video
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2025, 03:08:11 AM »
Sticking on the golf in Germany theme, I haven’t played too much there. The one course I remember enjoying that hasn’t been mentioned was Cologne (Golf-und Land-Club Koln) which was a von Limburger original.


Quite tree lined but a heathland feel if I recall correctly (which I may not as it was quite a long time ago). Think it’s had a couple of re-do’s since, firstly by Howard Swan and secondly by the ever present “Colt-expert Team”.


You been there recently, Angela?

Niall C

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Angela Moser Video
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2025, 04:33:38 AM »
I haven't much more to add than already said but a very interesting video giving a good insight into both Angela and her work as well as an insight into the differences in being part of the team and then being the lead. I'd love to think I might get to play her handiwork at Pinehurst but that's probably unlikely. Hopefully I'll get the chance to play one closer to home.


Niall

Adam Lawrence

  • Total Karma: 4
Re: Angela Moser Video
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2025, 05:11:00 AM »

IOn the nearby island of Föhr, the golf club celebrates its centenary this year, but the course is not a hundred years old. The club began on another site, where Bernhard von Limburger built its first course, but it was revived in the 1960s on another piece of land, when Frank Pennink built a new nine holes. The course was extended to eighteen by the locals to a routing provided by Don Harradine, and the young German architect Christian Althaus built a third nine fifteen years ago. Since then, Christian has rebuilt the other two nines, so the course is now entirely his, and in my opinion it is excellent work. The third nine, on sandy farmland that would presumably have been dune heath before it was farmed, was built with a dunelond theme; the two reworked nines are at least partially treed, so the shaping is more subtle, but I think it is very good. Christian is a good friend of mine, and I believe he is a real talent.


Adam:

Budersand is a prestigious club and has a wonderful hotel and spa, which I hope you were hosted at. The golf course is a missed opportunity, especially on such a site and ground.

Föhr is a great Island, and the golf course sits beautifully on the ground. Christian's renovation work made the course 100% better. With fewer trees, the wind will come into play, and the fescue playing conditions will improve tremendously. Christian is very talented and has the right mindset, but every time I see his work, I get the sense that he is limited by the talent of the contractors.


Angela

It is a long time since I went to Budersand, but I remember the course being quite restrained, with not a lot of wildness or randomness. Quite German, perhaps?  ;D  I recall thinking it an impressive piece of work for one's first project, but it is interesting to speculate what a different architect might have done on that property.

I know what you mean about Christian, and I have said something similar to him. He is not the only architect who has emerged from a 'traditional' (by which I mean draw it and build it) training who I think has a lot of talent but could do with embracing design and shape a little more. One of the problems, I think, is that most of what he has worked on is not sandy like Föhr and requires more detailed planning.

He has tried, I think. The second of the three phases of work at Föhr was done with Mick McShane shaping, as was Christian's nine holes at Herzogswalde near Dresden, on _very_ heavy soil, which I saw and thought was really well done. IMO he just needs the right project (or perhaps more precisely, the right client, one who will say to him 'I want you to cut loose and do absolutely the best work of which you are capable) to light the blue touch paper and send him up where he should be.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2025, 05:15:05 AM by Adam Lawrence »
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Quinn Thompson

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Angela Moser Video
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2025, 05:31:20 AM »
Didn’t Rod Whitman put 18 holes in the ground in Germany ?


After working in Bordeaux ?

Angela Moser

  • Total Karma: 18
Re: Angela Moser Video
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2025, 06:31:50 AM »
Didn’t Rod Whitman put 18 holes in the ground in Germany ?


After working in Bordeaux ?


Correct. Schloss Langenstein CC
Rod did a nice job. The course fits into the landscape. On the front nine, there are a few open and long-range views with a handful of lone-standing mature trees in the areas in between, while on the back nine, you play through a forest. The view of the castle is cool. It's not over-bunkered or over-shaped, and it's pleasant to play.

Kalen Braley

  • Total Karma: -1
Re: Angela Moser Video
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2025, 10:37:49 AM »
Angela thanks for chiming in, this is an excellent thread!

As Tom mentioned above, at one point in time I was one of those 40-50 year olds with said pipe dream of getting in the biz, but I certainly know better! I'm curious if you'd be willing to share a few insights and/or unexpected/surprising things you've learned about the industry having over a decade of first hand experience now.