TGL

[Michael Morandi]

I just read an article that TGL starts tomorrow. This tech driven league has the pros hitting all shots into a screen simulating whatever course they are playing. They then putt, chip and hit green side bunker shots from real grass complexes. Question: do they have 18 real green complexes to match the course they are playing?  If not, it seems a bit bogus to me.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Is this league anything more than another thing for folks to bet on?

[cary lichtenstein]

We have one facility near our airport in West Palm Beach, I'm going to check it out, I think there is more to it and just golf, dining, bars, etc., Tickets are $529 each, very pricey.

[Wayne_Kozun]

I just read an article that TGL starts tomorrow. This tech driven league has the pros hitting all shots into a screen simulating whatever course they are playing. They then putt, chip and hit green side bunker shots from real grass complexes. Question: do they have 18 real green complexes to match the course they are playing?  If not, it seems a bit bogus to me.

The green can rotate and change topography:

The 3,800-square-foot putting surface and three sand bunkers sit on a 41-yard-wide turntable that rotates 360 degrees. The green itself features nearly 600 actuators embedded under the putting surface to change the slope of the green, creating hole-to-hole variations, a critical component to keeping each hole fresh.

[Kalen Braley]

If you can tolerate the yuck yuck talk in the video on the other thread, they explain how it all works, including the green...

[Matt Schoolfield]

TGL seems like an attempt to bring the traditional live sports model to golf. One in which you have as set arena, with numbered seats for sale, and you can charge a premium depending on proximity to the players. Golf is traditionally not a great live sport simply because the action his happening in multiple locations (except in match play, but lord knows TV ended that) thus it is impossible to maximize revenues by capturing the consumer surplus, because they cannot charge variable prices.

It also seems to be an attempt to capture some for the video game streaming market (currently approx $9B). I know it seems crazy, but video game streaming actually has become an extremely profitable industry.

I'll be honest that I cannot imagine myself watching (I pretty much only watch majors at courses I care about anyway), but this seems like a very reasonable bet to me considering how small of a market they need to make it profitable. Four-player teams, at small, live venues, plus streaming will likely not need a large audience to succeed, especially with a very young audience they can later convert into PGA Tour fans.

[Michael Morandi]

I just read an article that TGL starts tomorrow. This tech driven league has the pros hitting all shots into a screen simulating whatever course they are playing. They then putt, chip and hit green side bunker shots from real grass complexes. Question: do they have 18 real green complexes to match the course they are playing?  If not, it seems a bit bogus to me.

The green can rotate and change topography:

The 3,800-square-foot putting surface and three sand bunkers sit on a 41-yard-wide turntable that rotates 360 degrees. The green itself features nearly 600 actuators embedded under the putting surface to change the slope of the green, creating hole-to-hole variations, a critical component to keeping each hole fresh.

What if the greens on the course in play exceed 3800sq feet? How do they alter green side bunkers to fit the course in play?

[Matt Schoolfield]

What if the greens on the course in play exceed 3800sq feet? How do they alter green side bunkers to fit the course in play?

I don't think they will allow that. I'm pretty sure all the virtual greens will be within the design constraints of the real world green tech.

For bunkers, I think they can just literally hit out of a kid's swimming pool of sand and the launch monitor will be able to get the correct result.

[Tom_Doak]

For bunkers, I think they can just literally hit out of a kid's swimming pool of sand and the launch monitor will be able to get the correct result.

I got a press release the other day that reported they are using the same bunker sand as Augusta National. 

[Michael Morandi]

I think I get it now. They aren’t playing any current simulated course. Each is designed by tech with the constraint being the in house real green complex. Defies architectural sense.

[Jason Thurman]

For bunkers, I think they can just literally hit out of a kid's swimming pool of sand and the launch monitor will be able to get the correct result.

I got a press release the other day that reported they are using the same bunker sand as Augusta National. 

Seems like it should look as natural and at-home in that environment as the bunkers at Ballyneal look in theirs.

[Michael Morandi]

I just watched a few holes of the inaugural TGL event. It’s not for me. Everything about it violates my conception of golf but I fear that it will catch on with future generations. Loud, fast-paced and not very thoughtful. No weather elements. Seems like a desperate attempt to address declining viewership of tour events. Not much different from the NBA with its blaring intros and shot clock.

[mike_malone]

 As a viewer
 
    Edit it. Don’t want to see every shot. Can stand an hour.


 It’s a problem when one team gets crushed.

[Jerry Kluger]

I gave it 10 minutes then said bye-bye.

[Dan_Callahan]

If the only positive contribution this makes to tournament golf is the implementation of an actual shot clock, it will have been worth it.

[Tom_Doak]

If the only positive contribution this makes to tournament golf is the implementation of an actual shot clock, it will have been worth it.

Well then I am glad we're discussing the architecture of the fantasy golf holes!

[John Kavanaugh]

This is the same feeling I had after Gladiator II.

[Michael Morandi]

WSJ: These days, more Americans than ever are playing on simulators—and that’s particularly true for young people and women. In fact, there were more off-course golf participants (32.9 million) than on-course ones (26.6 million) in 2023, according to the National Golf Foundation.


“We’re trying to bring a new demographic to this game of golf,” Woods said recently. “It’s going to be unbelievable on TV. I hope that we can invigorate the game because it definitely needs it right now.”

[Peter Sayegh]

I gave it 10 minutes then said bye-bye.

I'm ashamed to admit I gave it 5 more minutes. Never again.

Everything about it violates my conception of golf but I fear that it will catch on with future generations. Loud, fast-paced and not very thoughtful. No weather elements.

I couldn't shake the artificial nature of the whole thing. How it is remotely related to golf or GCA escapes me.


I was genuinely surprised the "competitors" wore slacks in lieu of shorts and none sported a backwards cap if the target audience was "millennials" or any other younger age group.

P.S. does anyone else think Jim Harbaugh and Rickie Fowler shop at the same LensCrafters?

[Thomas Dai]

Watched some. Wasn’t impressed. Won’t watch again.

Atb

[Anthony_Nysse]

I think I get it now. They aren’t playing any current simulated course. Each is designed by tech with the constraint being the in house real green complex. Defies architectural sense.

"Each TGL match covers 15 holes, but course designers — including Nicklaus Design, Beau Welling and Augustín Pizá — have created 30 different holes ranging from the standard to the exotic. The holes can be arranged in any order."

[Kalen Braley]

I didn't watch, but how did the setup accommodate full wedge shots of 100-150 yards? 

As I understand it, the screen is 50-60 feet tall, but these guys hit wedges at well over double that in height.  Did they have to get up close to the screen so it would hit it before then, or did they flight them down?

[Joe Zucker]

There are a lot of old men yelling at clouds here.  If you didn't like it, that's fine.  Who am I to tell you what you enjoy?  But to pretend this isn't "golf" is insane to me.  For the vast majority of golfers, golf is about hitting a ball with a stick and this absolutely is golf.  For many of us in this niche GCA world, the course and grounds of the game take a massively outsized share.


I think it's important to remember that the essence of the game is swinging the club and hitting the ball.  Doing this on better courses obviously unlocks something special, but it is not a necessary requirement.  A few days ago a thread triggered a thought in my mind of how many of us would keep playing the game if we could only play Doak 2s from here on out?  Based on most posts, it seems like many here would drop the game. To me, this means you don't really love to play the game. You may love something else.


I would absolutely keep playing because I love hitting a ball with a stick. The fact that millions of people in Asia and beyond only play this game in a simulator has to mean something.  The attraction for us is interesting courses, but for most it is something else.

[Mark Pearce]

I think it's important to remember that the essence of the game is swinging the club and hitting the ball.

I agree with nearly everything else you said.  But this is just wrong.  The essence of golf is to hit the ball with a stick to get it from a teeing area and into a hole.  Even TGL has that.

[Tim_Cronin]

I thought it was a great deal of fun. A considerable amount of thought went into the technology. The adjustable green is tremendous. The screen is IMAX-sized. It's as if Golden Tee and TopGolf had a kid. The imaginary holes are a cross between the old Bud Chapman paintings and Desmond Muirhead's real creations.


The shot clock moves things along. You still have to make a putt.


I could live without the music, as I could with LIV's racket. Play-by-player Matt Barrie is a snooze.


I have no idea whether or not it will be a TV rating success, but Woods' appearance next week will likely goose the ratings. I'll watch again.