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Charlie Goerges

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Dan Jenkins' 1965 articles featuring the best 18 holes in America (according to him) was sort of the spark that set off the magazine ratings game, at least according to what I've heard/read. It's an interesting article over two issues in February 1965.

Edit: The images will be removed by noon today, for future reference, Here is a list:

1st – Merion, par 4 360
2nd – Scioto, par 4 436
3rd – Olympic, par 3 220
4th – Baltusrol, par 3 183
5th – Colonial, par 4 459
6th – Seminole, par 4 388
7th – Pine Valley, par 5 570
8th – Prairie Dunes, par 4 424
9th – Champions, par 5 538
Par 36: 3,578yds

10th – Winged Foot, par 3 191
11th – Merion, par 4 378
12th – ANGC, par 3 155
13th – The Dunes, par 5 560
14th – Cherry Hills, par 4 460
15th – Oakmont, par 4 458
16th – Oakland Hills, par 4 405
17th – Quail Creek, par 4 459
18th – Pebble Beach, par 5 530
Par 36: 3,596yds
 Par 72: 7,174yds




Sorry, had to remove the images a little early, I'll be busy later. Contact me if you want to view them offline.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2024, 10:45:17 AM by Charlie Goerges »
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Charlie Goerges

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« Last Edit: December 19, 2024, 10:44:54 AM by Charlie Goerges »
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Charlie Goerges

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« Last Edit: December 19, 2024, 10:45:50 AM by Charlie Goerges »
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Ronald Montesano

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The best way to avoid copyright issues, is to post a link to the source material. A stand-up librarian taught me this once.

1965 was a great year...it gave me to the world!
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Andrew Harvie

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I'm not sure if it's a copyright violation or not... I guess I should know that!


Anyway, this is an interesting list. Seeing Merion's choices at 1 and 11 are not where I'd go with that golf course... I, myself, am fond of the brilliantly simplistic 5th, and the over-the-top 16th... especially when I'd say they're both better holes than Jenkins own selections at the 5th and 16th. A lot can change in 60 years though, and that might be my own personal bias towards long 4's!


Speaking of change, has another golf course fallen out of fashion so dramatically than Champions? I've never played it, but it pops up on lists like these from previous eras all the time (those old Digest Top 100's had Champions in there regularly), but it's never, ever talked about anymore and I don't really know anyone who loves it. A product of changing tastes? Has the golf course changed?
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Tim_Weiman

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Charlie,


This was the first book on golf courses I purchased. I think it was like $5-10, but I’m not sure.


Jenkins, by the way, did write that he thought Merion was the best course in America.


Tim
« Last Edit: December 19, 2024, 05:54:09 AM by Tim_Weiman »
Tim Weiman

MCirba

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Drone photos prior to drones.


What struck me, particularly on the pic of the first at Merion, was the 50s/60s obsession with planting noxious weeds (i.e. white pines) along and into lines of play and recovery across virtually every golf course in the nation.   


Dare I also say that the 12th at Augusta National looks much better au naturel than all gussied up and perfected as in recent years.
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Ian Andrew

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Edit, guess I should just ask forgiveness later. On to the articles. First week 1 February 15th.


Work published in US before 1978 retains copyright for 95 years.
Article is really cool to look at, because the older photos are interesting.
But a list would have done the same thing for a discussion.

"Appreciate the constructive; ignore the destructive." -- John Douglas

Mark Pearce

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Edit, guess I should just ask forgiveness later. On to the articles. First week 1 February 15th.


Work published in US before 1978 retains copyright for 95 years.
Article is really cool to look at, because the older photos are interesting.
But a list would have done the same thing for a discussion.
And any reproduction of a copyright work without the copyright owner's consent is an infringement, unless it falls within a statutory exemption.  I know what they are in the UK (and this wouldn't qualify) but am not a US lawyer, so can't say for the US.
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Charlie Goerges

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I will go ahead and delete the material by noon. I don't wish to cause any problems, but it is a fascinating article that is no longer available online.


Everyone who's interested take your chance to read it before it's gone!
« Last Edit: December 19, 2024, 08:54:07 AM by Charlie Goerges »
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Charlie Goerges

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One thing that's a little fascinating, and revealing about Jenkins personal tastes is that his ideal course (albeit with input) in 1965 was nearly 7200 yards long. I realize that's from the back tees, but still.
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Michael Felton

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One thing that's a little fascinating, and revealing about Jenkins personal tastes is that his ideal course (albeit with input) in 1965 was nearly 7200 yards long. I realize that's from the back tees, but still.


That's an interesting point. I mentioned in the other thread that he called the 8th at Pine Valley the best short par 4. Under the best long par 4, he said something like "in my opinion there is no such thing, but if you push me on it, I'd say the Road Hole at St Andrews." That does seem somewhat counter to all the long par 4s in this list. To the extent I'm questioning my memory...


EDIT: yeah - it's in Fairways and Greens - direct quote:


Best long par 4 - There's no such thing if you're trying to play golf. But press me on the subject and I'll give you the seventeenth at St Andrews. The Road Hole.


Separately in the same bit, he said Pine Valley is the best 18 holes in a row.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2024, 10:32:38 AM by Michael Felton »

Charlie Goerges

  • Karma: +0/-0
One thing that's a little fascinating, and revealing about Jenkins personal tastes is that his ideal course (albeit with input) in 1965 was nearly 7200 yards long. I realize that's from the back tees, but still.


That's an interesting point. I mentioned in the other thread that he called the 8th at Pine Valley the best short par 4. Under the best long par 4, he said something like "in my opinion there is no such thing, but if you push me on it, I'd say the Road Hole at St Andrews." That does seem somewhat counter to all the long par 4s in this list. To the extent I'm questioning my memory...


EDIT: yeah - it's in Fairways and Greens - direct quote:


Best long par 4 - There's no such thing if you're trying to play golf. But press me on the subject and I'll give you the seventeenth at St Andrews. The Road Hole.


Separately in the same bit, he said Pine Valley is the best 18 holes in a row.




So maybe the SI articles aren't really entirely Jenkins' own opinion. It says on the first page that he consulted Joe Dey, Byron Nelson and Charlie Coe. Maybe they asserted more influence than I thought? In which case the statements you reference are his true, personal opinions, and this list is more of a collaboration.
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Tim_Cronin

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Links via the Sports Illustrated Vault (may be a paywall involved):


Front Nine: https://vault.si.com/vault/1965/02/15/the-best-18-in-america


Second Nine: https://vault.si.com/vault/1965/02/22/the-best-18-in-america
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer

Tim_Cronin

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Links to the copy, though not the original layout, via the Sports Illustrated Vault (may be a paywall involved):


Front Nine: https://vault.si.com/vault/1965/02/15/the-best-18-in-america


Second Nine: https://vault.si.com/vault/1965/02/22/the-best-18-in-america
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer

Charlie Goerges

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Thanks for posting. I tried multiple times to get back to the articles but was unable to.
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

mike_beene

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I believe the 9th at Champions is from the Jackrabbit course, not Cypress Creek where US Open, etc. have been played.

Stewart Abramson

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I believe the 9th at Champions is from the Jackrabbit course, not Cypress Creek where US Open, etc. have been played.


The linked article says that it is Jackrabbit #9