News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Simon Barrington

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What Is Your Biggest Doak Score Deviation From The Confidential Guide?
« Reply #100 on: December 14, 2024, 01:56:16 PM »
I'm certainly envious that Tom got to see so many British and Irish courses pre-2000s.
A period that was prior to a great deal of "well-intended" damage (homogenisation) being done to original features, aesthetics and strategy.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2024, 06:09:18 AM by Simon Barrington »

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What Is Your Biggest Doak Score Deviation From The Confidential Guide?
« Reply #101 on: December 16, 2024, 08:15:23 AM »


Anyway, my entry from 2016 had it as a 6, with the following un-edited blurb:

"The Old builds, and builds…by the time you have scaled the well-photographed finisher you might just be smiling out loud.  With relic bunkers lying at every turn, today’s course, like most, has been squeezed into what most would call a ‘fine test.’ To that smile: punchbowl at the second, table-top third, bean pinched fourth, semi-blind and falling away fifth, the eleventh angled beyond a burn, the rolling fourteenth with the Moray behind, and swale divided sixteenth greens that contrast and challenge! "
Quite a nice write up. You should be the 5th rater in the 2035 version of TGC.


Hear Hear!
Although selfishly I'd like Clyde to write a book on the south island of New Zealand(preferably by next month) equal to his previous work on the north island.
We all owe a debt of gratitude to explorers and guidebook writers such as Tom, Clyde, Sean Arble, Thomas Dai and others who have let us in on their secret wanderings to previously unsung destinations.
Though I am very interested in all of their opinions and descriptions, I am far less interested in a quantifiable number, and I'm far more interested in one/two or a series of cool unique holes than I am in some perfect and balanced routing devoid of lows.
In fact, I think I am drawn to the ones that AREN'T published 8-10's,just for the fear of what and who I might find when I arrive.
Though I have my own ideas of what makes a destination unforgettable.


It is difficult to explain how enjoyable it is on a beautiful day on an intriguing property to put $ in an honor box and the only human encountered is a lone, curious(part time) maintenance worker who opens the bar mid round and joins you and your party for a drink.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What Is Your Biggest Doak Score Deviation From The Confidential Guide?
« Reply #102 on: December 16, 2024, 10:34:51 AM »
I think you can love RND as a place, and even as a course, whilst acknowledging that as a course it's a solid 4/5, with a handful of really good holes and a few more really mundane ones.


No doubt there are some mundane holes, just as at Hoylake, or Brancaster, or (for many people) at St Andrews.  But those holes at Westward Ho! are still challenging and the place is so full of character, a 4 would be an admission that you have no soul.  Is it worth the trip out west?  For most people it certainly is, so that makes it at least a 6.
I thought the ratings were for the courses, rather than the places?  As I said, I think you can love RND as a place, whilst acknowledging that the course is a solid 4 or 5.  Then again, perhaps I have no soul!  Would it be worth the trip just for the course, if the clubhouse had been built in the '60s and the club didn't have the history it does have?
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: What Is Your Biggest Doak Score Deviation From The Confidential Guide?
« Reply #103 on: December 16, 2024, 11:17:23 AM »
I think you can love RND as a place, and even as a course, whilst acknowledging that as a course it's a solid 4/5, with a handful of really good holes and a few more really mundane ones.


No doubt there are some mundane holes, just as at Hoylake, or Brancaster, or (for many people) at St Andrews.  But those holes at Westward Ho! are still challenging and the place is so full of character, a 4 would be an admission that you have no soul.  Is it worth the trip out west?  For most people it certainly is, so that makes it at least a 6.
I thought the ratings were for the courses, rather than the places?  As I said, I think you can love RND as a place, whilst acknowledging that the course is a solid 4 or 5.  Then again, perhaps I have no soul!  Would it be worth the trip just for the course, if the clubhouse had been built in the '60s and the club didn't have the history it does have?


I just think you can’t look at the Doak Scale as objectively as many here are suggesting. I also think it’s designed for travel first and foremost. Saying Westward Ho! is a 4 vs a 6 is so odd to me. The subjective/ambiguous nature of the scale itself and RND’s place in golfing lore/history would dictate to me the obviousness of it all. “Definitely worth a game if you’re in town. It won’t disappoint because we haven’t over-promised.”


I think people get wrapped around the axle about these ratings. If/then logic confounds the discussion.




Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What Is Your Biggest Doak Score Deviation From The Confidential Guide?
« Reply #104 on: December 16, 2024, 11:40:14 AM »
I suspect many decently to well traveled golfers long ago outgrew the Doak Scale. That scale is like any ranking, once experienced, golfers dig into deeper personal recommendations. I can’t recall the last time I used the books to decide where to play.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2025: Ludlow, Machrihanish Dunes, Dunaverty and Carradale

Paul Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What Is Your Biggest Doak Score Deviation From The Confidential Guide?
« Reply #105 on: December 16, 2024, 11:40:25 AM »
I do not have the scores in front of me... the two that I usually deviate from are:
  • Deepdale - love more
  • Oakmont - do not love as much
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What Is Your Biggest Doak Score Deviation From The Confidential Guide?
« Reply #106 on: December 16, 2024, 12:32:28 PM »
Would it be worth the trip just for the course, if the clubhouse had been built in the '60s and the club didn't have the history it does have?
Yes, absolutely imo, although I appreciate some might disagree.
I recall that a few years ago Sean proposed something akin to a tax on all golfers coming to the U.K. with the revenue going to RND.
Special course not unlike other raw, rural and rustic courses around GB&I and other parts of the World that some fans of the game seem keen to seek out and play even if the travel involved is extensive.
Atb

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What Is Your Biggest Doak Score Deviation From The Confidential Guide?
« Reply #107 on: December 17, 2024, 06:26:19 AM »
Would it be worth the trip just for the course, if the clubhouse had been built in the '60s and the club didn't have the history it does have?
Yes, absolutely imo, although I appreciate some might disagree.
I recall that a few years ago Sean proposed something akin to a tax on all golfers coming to the U.K. with the revenue going to RND.
Special course not unlike other raw, rural and rustic courses around GB&I and other parts of the World that some fans of the game seem keen to seek out and play even if the travel involved is extensive.
Atb


I'll tell you what I think's wrong with that idea and it is that you give the club a heap of money and the first thing they do is upgrade/replace the clubhouse and you've lost the very thing you're looking to preserve. I've no idea what Nairn had before there current clubhouse but it would be hard pushed to be any less charming as the current one, even though it is perfectly functional.


What we tend to value in this country such as the quirk, charm, idiosyncracy of courses and clubhouses from yesteryear usually still exists due to a lack of capital investment over the years. Just my opinion.


Niall

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What Is Your Biggest Doak Score Deviation From The Confidential Guide?
« Reply #108 on: December 17, 2024, 02:44:01 PM »
6 at Deal for example I quite like it, but I know a lot of people who hate it and think it's a stupid hole.

It’s time for you to find some better friends, Michael.