[Patrick_Mucci]

Is there a market for a magazine devoted strictly to golf course architecture ?

A magazine that would be published semi-annual or quarterly.

[JBStansell]

Where do I subscribe?  How can I invest?  Are you hiring?  (Seriously, as for myself, I spend an inordinate amount of my time leafing through GCA books, so its easy to see myself enjoying color glossy phots on par with National Geographic or Architectural Digest.)  

[Joel_Stewart]

I thought Links was that type of magazine but they went over the top with ads for golf communities that then featured those communities.  The editor should be jailed for extreme conflict of interests.

Is there a market - yes. The question is could a Golf Architecture magazine be profitable without selling out completely to the golf club companies and golf communities?  I think yes, and I'm also an investor if you put it together.

[SPDB]

Pat -
Thank you. I would be honored to write for your magazine. Tell me where to send my first article.

I think there is a market for bi-annual. Moreover, I think it could be underwritten by this site (its members).

An even better idea is bringing a dunk tank to the Baltusrol Get Together, and let people try and dunk you for $5. That should cover overhead for the first couple of issues.

[A_Clay_Man]

Pat- I would be willing to bet it is similar to building a golf course. If it's done for philanthropic reasons, without concern for immediate profitable returns, and the content was top-notch, I might spend 20 bucks for a copy. With that price tag you'd need alot less of a market.

[Tim_Weiman]

Pat:

You may want to touch base with Neil Crafter. His Australia based publication probably came the closest to what you may have in mind.

Neil did 4-5 editions a couple years back, but we haven't seen anything lately.

[SPDB]

I'd say Paul Daley is coming pretty close to a magazine with his (what appears to be) annual installments of "Golf Architecture - A Worldwide Perspective" series (Vols. I & II).

He would be a logical sounding board.

[Brad Klein]

Enthusasim of a small, 1,000-strong readership is one thing. Working up a plausible business plan to cover production and distribution costs is quite another.

I don't mean to be dismissive here, merely realistic. "Links Magazine" is largely dependent upon ad revenue because like most magazines it finds it can't recoup as much as half of its costs from subscriber fees.

I'd support such a venture, but it would have to be heavily subsidized by sugar daddies.

[Carlyle Rood]

Is there a market?  No.  Is there a niche?  Perhaps.

It would have to be a publication like Cigar Aficionado; i.e., a magazine about "the good life."  

[Neil_Crafter]

 
Patrick, Tim and others

Our Society of Australian Golf Course Architects publishes an annual magazine entitled "Golf architecture" of which I am the editor. We have published 6 issues and are working on issue 7 for 2004 now, which will be published in January. It is an 80 page magazine devoted solely to course design, and has an international flavour, but with an Aussie perspective. Authors for the next issue include Geoff Shackelford, Daniel Wexler, Mike DeVries, Paul Daley, Tom MacWood and Graham Marsh.

Back issues 1-6 and subscriptions for issue 7 can be ordered online at www.ausgolf.com.au/ga  ,by fax at +618 8354 2644 and I'll fax you back an order form, or email me on golfstra@senet.com.au and I can email you an order form.

I think it would be great if someone tried to do this in the US, but I doubt if a private individual could make it profitable. Jeff Mingay up in Canada is thinking about something similar.

We would love to have more subscribers in the US but despite putting a number of posts about the magazine on GCA over the last couple of years, many on this site do not know we exist. Please give us a try, I know Tim you have told us how much you have enjoyed the magazine. By the way, we have't gone away! Our last issue was 2003 and our next is 2004 - still on our once a year track.

Hope to hear from a number of you GCAers out there.

cheers
Neil Crafter
Editor
Golf Architecture magazine

[Jonathan Cummings]

Great!  First thing we need to do after we launch the magazine is start a rating panel!  

[A_Clay_Man]

Neil- I try to keep up on most threads but this is the first I've heard of your publication. Good on ya.

Pat- After thinking more about your original posit, I'd say the idea would be alot more successful if it were actually posible to make value judgments from photo's. Perhaps a complete pictorial (all angles all views) combined with poetic prose, could be very educational.

[pats_lawyer]

http://www.isubscribe.com.au/title_info.cfm?prodID=5887

[Steve Lang]

 

methinks.. Yes and No.  

You'd have to be retired to have the free time to do it and keep it pure.  

Hey, why not start a Website?  Make the mag donnloadable? Hmmmmmmm

[Patrick_Mucci]

Brad Klein,

Have the magazines you're familiar with undertaken surveys or studies with regard to the demographic of their readership and is there anything in those studies that might identify the market for golf course architecture, and the best method for reaching them.

In your opinion, would a periodical be better received if its focus was narrow, or would you think it would be more appealing with a broader range of topics and articles ?

Who do you think would be the ideal advertisers, without creating a conflict of interest ?

A Clayman,

Non-agenda based photos would be an integral part of the periodical. Remember, the magazine would be about golf course architecture, and not a rag sheet trying to smear architects for personal reasons.

I've gotten many requests for photos, especially for those less intuitive readers  

[Tom_Doak]

Patrick,

I think the success of any Golf Architecture magazine would ultimately boil down to who writes the articles.  LINKS used to have some excellent articles on golf courses, but as those writers have become affiliated with other publications, it's slipped noticeably.

The people who will volunteer to write things for free are not necessarily the ones worth reading.

[Brad Klein]

Pat, all magazines do extensive demographic profiling of their readership, subscribers and trade loyalists.

No one has ever done a specific study of (potential) architecture readers or followers. However, I have seen the results of two major national golf publications asking about specific reader preferences for articles, with instruction usually in the top 60%, followed by PGA Tour news (circa 30%) and architecture well behind fashion and travel in the 2-3% region.

These numbers are borne out by data from book publishers on sales of architecture-related books, where sales of 6,000-10,000 copies are considered excellent per volume, numbers that would prove disastrous for instructional or golf biography books.

This is part of my contention all along that architecture is an extremely narrow niche of the golf consumer market.

There are already too many national, and regional magazines, with not enough readers, with great turnover all of the time in their existence, plus extensive competition among them for advertisers. Such competition is likely to get worse given industry consolidation.

I feel lucky that Golfweek allows the space it does to the subject and is able to meet that niche for its readers. Ask yourself how much space in the other magazines is devoted to the subject. You might think the market is under-served, but you'd be in a small minority.

I wouldn't venture a guess as which advertisers to appeal to, but there is certainly no possibility for such a magazine unless it is heavily subsidized by its readers. The more photography, the more expensive the production and distribution costs.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Brad Klein,

Would a website subscription magazine be the most effecient method for getting one's toe in the water ?
And, if it were successful, couldn't the print route be an evolving successor ?

Would this method eliminate much of the production and distribution costs ?

The problem with a website is the ability to download and reproduce without compensation.

Golfweek bifurcates golf courses into modern and classic.

It would seem to make sense to categorize golf course architecture into private, public, resort and residential, with a category for restorations.

As I read your disturbing statistics regarding the narrow market, perhaps a semi annual periodical would be the most prudent starting point.

Tom Doak,

I agree.

I think the cornerstone of such a periodical would be the quality of the articles, their source and the accompanying photos.

Compensation for said articles would have to be SOP.

But, there might be an element of quid pro quo.

An article by you about the design and construction of Pacific Dunes, along with pre, during and post construction photos might be just the type of subject matter that you would enjoy writing about, and the fans of golf course architecture would enjoy reading about.  Throw in a Mike Keiser interview and that would be the type of article that architecture buffs would find highly interesting.

Brad Klein's point is, how many of them are out there, and what would they be willing to pay ?

[Tim_Weiman]

Neil Crafter:

I'm happy to hear you have another edition coming. Sorry if I implied otherwise.

[Craig_Rokke]

5 years ago, I would have said "no way". Not that there wasn't a potential market, but rather that there would have been no real way to get the word out, and no real chance  for a magazine like that to sustain itself.

Now, with a site like this, at least there would be instant
press about a new publication. I would guess that there
would be a decent amount of interest from users of this site, but unfortunately, no matter how good it is, not enough to keep it afloat without some subsidization. I'd probably subscribe, though.

[A_Clay_Man]

A Clayman,

Non-agenda based photos would be an integral part of the periodical. Remember, the magazine would be about golf course architecture, and not a rag sheet trying to smear architects for personal reasons.

Pat- unless a photo has been doctored, how does it become agenda based?

Since your focus has already turned to advertisers I feel the idea is bad one. Plus, would it be an acceptable rag if it slammed archies based on performance?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat- unless a photo has been doctored, how does it become agenda based?

You could ask Gib Papazian about photographing an actors or actresses good side versus bad side, angles, lighting, etc.,

Photos taken as the golfer sees the golf course during a round of play present a more honest view, as opposed to photos from angles that the golfer will likely never see as they play the golf course.

I could show you a photo taken from the rear of a bunker to the left of the green at # 7 at NGLA that you and most of the cognoscente would criticize, but, a photo taken as the golfer sees the same feature presents quite a different view.

In fact, if I posted that picture, I doubt that one in a thousand would know that it's a bunker at NGLA

Since your focus has already turned to advertisers I feel the idea is bad one.

If you read my post with a modicum of comprehension you would have seen that I specifically focused on avoiding conflicts of interest from advertisers.

My focus hasn't turned to advertisers as you falsely allege,
but they are an element in contributing to the success of a
project of this nature.  To ignore them wouldn't be prudent.

As for the idea being a bad one, when you create your own magazine, you can do it your way
 
Plus, would it be an acceptable rag if it slammed archies based on performance?

Why must I slam architects ?
I'm not interested in "Bitching" sessions or articles slamming architects.

I'd rather focus on the positives, the site selection,
the creative nature of the routing, design and features and the construction phase of golf course projects, as told by those intimately involved with these projects, amongst other features of interest.

A Tom Doak and Mike Keiser at Pacific Dunes,
A Coore & Crenshaw and Ken Bakst at Friar's Head.
A Kelly Blake Moran and his counter part at Laurel Links,
Gil Hanse and Arthur Belber (sp?) at Applebrook,
etc., etc..

As I said, you're free to create a magazine/periodical along the lines you seem to prefer, but since I'm considering embarking on this project, I'll do it my way.  

[Matt_Ward]

Pat:

Without repeating what's been said I would suggest the following: it's far easier to create an on-line subscription service which would detail the kind of info and perspectives that those who crave such info would pay for.

The "average" golf reader is not concerned with the narrow interest you see here on GCA. You also have publishing and distribution costs. An on-line service could be effective because it would be easier to produce and the wherewithal to get it to you those who are interested is not that daunting as the printed variety that comes to your door via hard mail.

The other concern is that when you begin to accept $$$ for ads it's important not to blur the lines between "advertorial" which a few pubs have become (see Links Magazine) and true "editorial." I know how tough that can be in having edited a statewide publication for 13+ years.

You need to develop a core base of supporters because going "big" may sound great conceptually but when you hit the wall with actual mounting costs you find out what the entire situation really is.

[JNC Lyon]

 I believe there would not be a large demand for the product. However, I do believe it would be a popular publication for some. The first thing one should do with this magazine is establish a hole design contest a la Country Life in 1914. Would the winner be the next Mackenzie?

[Forrest Richardson]

Recommend that anyone seriously interested contact the Shivas Irons Society, who is actively working on a launch of a terrific quarterly called The Journal. It will focus a decent percent toward architecture.

sis.org

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