Players To Be Paid For Ryder Cup Participation

[Simon Barrington]

Geoff Shackelford's words in reviewing the European Ryder Cup Team's "Una Famiglia" Film:

"One where the chasm grows between how each side values the Ryder Cup.
The Europeans continue to make clear that it’s the ultimate privilege and thrill. The Americans increasingly treat the Ryder Cup as an obligation."

Watch here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INA0PeUwkNQ

Cheers

[jim_lewis]

I don't care whether they get paid or not.
In fact, I don't care if they even play.


If they are going to be paid, I think they should be able to decline the invitation without being criticized.

[Chris Hughes]

Geoff Shackelford's words in reviewing the European Ryder Cup Team's "Una Famiglia" Film:

"One where the chasm grows between how each side values the Ryder Cup.
The Europeans continue to make clear that it’s the ultimate privilege and thrill. The Americans increasingly treat the Ryder Cup as an obligation."

Watch here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INA0PeUwkNQ

Cheers

Apparently there's a lot of #FakeNews floating around out there on this story. 


Keegan goes on the record say nothing is done and -0- players have asked for anything.  Also points out the $200K (charitable donation) hasn't changed since 1999. 


Here:  https://www.si.com/golf/keegan-bradley-report-us-ryder-cup-players-paid-speculation


Tiger doubles down and says he thinks the number should be $5,000,000 per player!  Again, all to charity...


Here:  https://www.si.com/golf/keegan-bradley-report-us-ryder-cup-players-paid-speculation


In not so many words both basically say they don't give a damn how the UK/Euro players feel about it, and they want to pay to play in it feel free.

[Rob Marshall]

Geoff Shackelford's words in reviewing the European Ryder Cup Team's "Una Famiglia" Film:

"One where the chasm grows between how each side values the Ryder Cup.
The Europeans continue to make clear that it’s the ultimate privilege and thrill. The Americans increasingly treat the Ryder Cup as an obligation."

Watch here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INA0PeUwkNQ

Cheers

Apparently there's a lot of #FakeNews floating around out there on this story. 


Keegan goes on the record say nothing is done and -0- players have asked for anything.  Also points out the $200K (charitable donation) hasn't changed since 1999. 


Here:  https://www.si.com/golf/keegan-bradley-report-us-ryder-cup-players-paid-speculation


Tiger doubles down and says he thinks the number should be $5,000,000 per player!  Again, all to charity...


Here:  https://www.si.com/golf/keegan-bradley-report-us-ryder-cup-players-paid-speculation


In not so many words both basically say they don't give a damn how the UK/Euro players feel about it, and they want to pay to play in it feel free.

Any Ryder Cup payments should be the same for both teams. I don’t believe for a minute that players haven’t asked for anything. When someone says it isn’t about the money, it’s all about the money.

[Chris Hughes]

Geoff Shackelford's words in reviewing the European Ryder Cup Team's "Una Famiglia" Film:

"One where the chasm grows between how each side values the Ryder Cup.
The Europeans continue to make clear that it’s the ultimate privilege and thrill. The Americans increasingly treat the Ryder Cup as an obligation."

Watch here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INA0PeUwkNQ

Cheers

Apparently there's a lot of #FakeNews floating around out there on this story. 


Keegan goes on the record say nothing is done and -0- players have asked for anything.  Also points out the $200K (charitable donation) hasn't changed since 1999. 


Here:  https://www.si.com/golf/keegan-bradley-report-us-ryder-cup-players-paid-speculation


Tiger doubles down and says he thinks the number should be $5,000,000 per player!  Again, all to charity...


Here:  https://www.si.com/golf/keegan-bradley-report-us-ryder-cup-players-paid-speculation


In not so many words both basically say they don't give a damn how the UK/Euro players feel about it, and they want to pay to play in it feel free.

Any Ryder Cup payments should be the same for both teams. I don’t believe for a minute that players haven’t asked for anything. When someone says it isn’t about the money, it’s all about the money.

Players and the Captain on the American side have been allocated $200K each for charity, half to be donated to charities the player chooses, half to be used for golf development in the player's community. 


This started in 1999 at the behest of O'Meara/Duval/Woods/Mickelson and the number hasn't changed since.   


The UK/Euro side can't afford to pay the players as their Ryder Cup profits are used to keep the European Tour afloat.   Euro Tour basically fills the coffers during their host-year and then depletes them in the following three (3), rinse & repeat. 


Keegan is known to be a stand up guy, this is his exact quote:



“What Tiger said was 100 percent correct,” Bradley says. “I don’t think the charity dollars have changed from ’99. It’s been the same number. But it’s the PGA of America’s decision. I have to wait and see what they want to do. I don’t have the power to change any of that.

“What I can say is that not a single player has asked for this, has come to me with this. No player was part of this. Zero percent.”

Keegan Bradley Says Report of U.S. Ryder Cup Players Being Paid Is ‘All Speculation’

[Simon Barrington]

"The UK/Euro side can't afford to pay the players as their Ryder Cup profits are used to keep the European Tour afloat.   Euro Tour basically fills the coffers during their host-year and then depletes them in the following three (3), rinse & repeat."

Chris, Thanks for the context and links.

Re. Above - It's not quite so simple as that.

Looking at PGA European Tour Limited financials from 2023 "only" £107.64mln of £448.23mln Total Revenue came from the Ryder Cup.

It is true to say that Home events reap the bigger amounts, 2021 Away Matches netted them £22.06mln, but they clearly have other revenue and not solely dependent upon this event.

I believe they also share the proceeds with the Domestic UK PGA (it certainly will be the bulk of their funding, as it is for the US PGA)

Notably, from these financial reports the PGA Tour owns 15% of the PGA European Tour, following a deal struck in 2021 (during COVID) for $85mln. Only $43.7mln of this has been transfered so far.

But the PGA Tour also have provided "uplift" payments (held as debt on the B/Sheet) amounting to £19.6mln in 2023

So as ever in finance and golf it's a tangled web, but when rumours abound of the DP World Tour doing a deal with LIV directly, some may not know that as a 15% shareholder the PGA Tour likely has a seat at the table and/or influence.

Cheers

[Chris Hughes]

Simon,


Have you ever seen PGA Tour internal docs from the Klayman vs. PGA Tour case in the Palm Beach County, 15th Circuit Court?  (circa June 2022)


350+ pages chock full of interesting (telling) financial information on Euro Tour and their tangled web with Ryder Cup & PGA Tour.

[Simon Barrington]

Simon,
Have you ever seen PGA Tour internal docs from the Klayman vs. PGA Tour case in the Palm Beach County, 15th Circuit Court?  (circa June 2022)
350+ pages chock full of interesting (telling) financial information on Euro Tour and their tangled web with Ryder Cup & PGA Tour.

No, but look forward to your executive summary, in bullet point format!

[Chris Hughes]

Simon,
Have you ever seen PGA Tour internal docs from the Klayman vs. PGA Tour case in the Palm Beach County, 15th Circuit Court?  (circa June 2022)
350+ pages chock full of interesting (telling) financial information on Euro Tour and their tangled web with Ryder Cup & PGA Tour.

No, but look forward to your executive summary, in bullet point format!

(all quotes directly from internal PGA Tour docs)



STRATEGIC OVERVIEW:  "...we are recommending we pursue a merger with ETG. 

Not gaining control of the DPWT would leave it vulnerable and the global talent pathway susceptible to further disruption.  Finally, successfully merging with ETG would also provide us with control of the European side of the Ryder Cup and financial upside that comes with both."

ETG HISTORICAL FINANCIALS:  "ETG has historically operated on a "break-even" basis during each rolling four-year cycle, with Ryder Cup years (particularly the European hosted event) generating positive EBITDA to offset other annual losses."

ETG FORECAST FINANCIALS:  "We found the ETG BAU forecast overly optimistic and unrealistic.  Neither ETG's historical performance nor material business changes suggest ETG BAU forecast as being achievable."

COMMENTARY:  "Post-Consolidation TOUR Base Case forecast has ~$128mm cumulative net deficit during the 2023-2035 term.  Generally, we find the ETG an underinvested and borderline distressed asset.  The event model may be unsustainable, or at a minimum, represents an unstable foundation."

CLOSING:  "We have chosen not to share the reconstructed financials with ETG until post-consolidation, as the workbook could be highly valuable to ETG in exploring other financing options outside of PGA TOUR."




[BAU = business as usual]

[Jeff Schley]

Settled, they will.
Americans will be paid to play in the Ryder Cup for the first time under a PGA of America program that gives each player a $200,000 stipend and $300,000 to distribute to charity.

[Thomas Dai]

More and more I’m beginning to hope that the next Ryder Cup is an absolute disaster (without anyone being actually physically injured) to the extent that the event never takes place again.
Whilst I’m rather sad writing this I believe the Ryder Cup has become a prime example of everything that is wrong with modern era sporting contests.
Atb

[BHoover]

It will be much easier to openly cheer for the Europeans going forward. Most of them are more likeable anyway, particularly with Sergio and Poulter no longer part of the event.


Unfortunately, as with other professional sports, money has made things less interesting, whether paying the players outright, gambling, equipment, etc.

[Chris Hughes]

More and more I’m beginning to hope that the next Ryder Cup is an absolute disaster (without anyone being actually physically injured) to the extent that the event never takes place again.

While confident the event will continue in the future, I feel reasonably certain it will never go back to Bethpage again.  It's gonna be must-see TV (if you like train wrecks) as it goes to crowd behaviour/control and I won't be at all surprised if the players have to be pulled off the course at some point.

It will be much easier to openly cheer for the Europeans going forward.

Was there some reason you had to keep your feelings closeted here in the past?

[BHoover]

It will be much easier to openly cheer for the Europeans going forward.

Was there some reason you had to keep your feelings closeted here in the past?

Despite being an American, I typically never had a rooting interest in the Ryder Cup. I only wanted to see an interesting and competitive match. Now I actively want Europe to win.

[Tom_Doak]

There has always been a huge gap in the interest of the Ryder Cup between the European players and the Americans.


Europe's team is never as deep, with the bottom 4-6 spots on the team filled by guys who aren't serious contenders to win a major championship in their careers.  This makes the Ryder Cup the most important event of their lives.  There is no one on the American team for whom that is true . . . they are all dreaming of majors and individual glory.


Meanwhile, the stars on the European team have always loved sticking it to the Americans . . . partly because the PGA Tour treated them so badly, and partly because the Americans are so self-assured.


The other disconnect has been the whole issue of who makes the $.  The European team's winnings go straight to supporting the European Tour . . . but the American half of the event is owned by the PGA of America, not the Tour.  [Indeed, the PGA Tour now makes 15% off the European team and 0% off the American team.] 


The 1950s generation of players saw themselves as PGA professionals first and Tour players second, so in their world the money going to the PGA was appropriate, but that's been out the window for a long time.  So, as the event started to produce more money in the 1990s, the U.S. players rightly started wondering how the PGA of America was using all those millions of dollars.  And the media [and fans] ALWAYS in all sports finds a way to side with ownership and criticize the players as greedy, just as they've been beating the drum about LIV this whole time.


It was always hypocritical to demand that the players "represent their country" for free, when there was $ being made.

[Sean_A]

There has always been a huge gap in the interest of the Ryder Cup between the European players and the Americans.


Europe's team is never as deep, with the bottom 4-6 spots on the team filled by guys who aren't serious contenders to win a major championship in their careers.  This makes the Ryder Cup the most important event of their lives.  There is no one on the American team for whom that is true . . . they are all dreaming of majors and individual glory.


Meanwhile, the stars on the European team have always loved sticking it to the Americans . . . partly because the PGA Tour treated them so badly, and partly because the Americans are so self-assured.


The other disconnect has been the whole issue of who makes the $.  The European team's winnings go straight to supporting the European Tour . . . but the American half of the event is owned by the PGA of America, not the Tour.  [Indeed, the PGA Tour now makes 15% off the European team and 0% off the American team.] 


The 1950s generation of players saw themselves as PGA professionals first and Tour players second, so in their world the money going to the PGA was appropriate, but that's been out the window for a long time.  So, as the event started to produce more money in the 1990s, the U.S. players rightly started wondering how the PGA of America was using all those millions of dollars.  And the media [and fans] ALWAYS in all sports finds a way to side with ownership and criticize the players as greedy, just as they've been beating the drum about LIV this whole time.


It was always hypocritical to demand that the players "represent their country" for free, when there was $ being made.

It is odd that so many people lambast sports folk for their earnings? I always think, well most of the time, better the athletes getting paid outrageously well than the owners pocketing that money. I am pleased when I hear about athletes getting theirs. I will have more sympathy for owners when they start footing the infrastructure and stadium bills.

Ciao

[Adam Lawrence]

There has always been a huge gap in the interest of the Ryder Cup between the European players and the Americans.

Europe's team is never as deep, with the bottom 4-6 spots on the team filled by guys who aren't serious contenders to win a major championship in their careers.  This makes the Ryder Cup the most important event of their lives.  There is no one on the American team for whom that is true . . . they are all dreaming of majors and individual glory.

Meanwhile, the stars on the European team have always loved sticking it to the Americans . . . partly because the PGA Tour treated them so badly, and partly because the Americans are so self-assured.

The other disconnect has been the whole issue of who makes the $.  The European team's winnings go straight to supporting the European Tour . . . but the American half of the event is owned by the PGA of America, not the Tour.  [Indeed, the PGA Tour now makes 15% off the European team and 0% off the American team.] 

The 1950s generation of players saw themselves as PGA professionals first and Tour players second, so in their world the money going to the PGA was appropriate, but that's been out the window for a long time.  So, as the event started to produce more money in the 1990s, the U.S. players rightly started wondering how the PGA of America was using all those millions of dollars.  And the media [and fans] ALWAYS in all sports finds a way to side with ownership and criticize the players as greedy, just as they've been beating the drum about LIV this whole time.

It was always hypocritical to demand that the players "represent their country" for free, when there was $ being made.

While I agree almost entirely with this post, the phrase 'the European team's winnings' is a little odd. There are no 'winnings' in the normal usage of the word, there isn't a prize fund. The revenue is, obviously, media, merchandise and ticketing related.


It is odd that golf fans expect people to represent their country/Tour for free. Do people think that footballers don't get paid for playing international matches, or cricketers, or (insert any major international sport you wish here)?


The one thing that does strike me as a little bizarre is the token nature of the payment. It's as if the Tour's management logic is 'Let's bung them half a mill to keep them quiet'. But Scottie Scheffler has earned almost thirty million this year. Anyone qualifying for the Ryder Cup team will have made way more than $5 million in on course earnings next year. Half a million is a sweetener, no more. It won't make the issue go away.

[David Cronan]

I think it’s only a matter of time before a handful of top US PGA Tour players decide to breakaway from the Ryder Cup and start their own versions of Ryder and President’s Cup matches……staging, playing and profiting enormously from the events. There’s simply too much money involved.


Whether or not it comes to fruition is anyone’s guess…..but it’s inevitable.