[Steven Wade]

My club had a ~17% increase last year, so I think they’ll lay off us this year. I am hearing rumblings that our guest fee is going to increase approximately 40% next year though. Not officially verified, but through sources I trust. The pound of flesh gets paid one way or another.

[Daryl David]

Both of my clubs monthly dues increased around 5%. Initiation up more. Around 25%. Waiting lists at both clubs. Oh, also no charge for use of the golf simulators. 

[A.G._Crockett]

"top shelf consulting firm" & "24% whiff" are mutually exclusive...
L

You’re entitled to your opinion.  The Chambers Group is quite prominent and well-regarded.  Perhaps if you lived in the Triangle and knew the situation here first-hand, you’d be better informed; I’ve done the best I can to help you understand.

[Jim_Coleman]

    The Chambers Group is highly regarded? Not by me. They’re very good at slickly convincing people to spend way more more than is necessary. That’s how they make money.

[Rob Marshall]

My club had a ~17% increase last year, so I think they’ll lay off us this year. I am hearing rumblings that our guest fee is going to increase approximately 40% next year though. Not officially verified, but through sources I trust. The pound of flesh gets paid one way or another.

Steven,
Do you think the course is crowded so they want to discourage guests? That's one way to do it.

[Chris Hughes]

"top shelf consulting firm" & "24% whiff" are mutually exclusive...
L

You’re entitled to your opinion.  The Chambers Group is quite prominent and well-regarded.  Perhaps if you lived in the Triangle and knew the situation here first-hand, you’d be better informed; I’ve done the best I can to help you understand.

The Triangle area doesn't constitute some sort of unique economic microclimate.


(NC State grad here)

[Chris Hughes]

    The Chambers Group is highly regarded? Not by me. They’re very good at slickly convincing people to spend way more more than is necessary. That’s how they make money.

Exactly. 

Private clubs aren't some sort of black box that only "the consultants" like Chambers, McMahon Group, Peacock & Lewis, etc. are able to understand, and guide strategically.

Every club has the resources internally to chart a proper course for said club, the business model is really quite simple.

One time a club I knew of was facing a key decision and I thought to myself "wonder how XYZ GC would handle this"...??  (best run club anywhere IMO)

So, I called up to Long Island and got the GM on the line (a friend of mine) and asked if they used "consultants" when facing various decisions of consequence, his response:

"Oh no.  Chris, what we do is get 10 smart guys in a room and figure it out on our own, we prefer to keep the money on our hip."   

[Steven Wade]

My club had a ~17% increase last year, so I think they’ll lay off us this year. I am hearing rumblings that our guest fee is going to increase approximately 40% next year though. Not officially verified, but through sources I trust. The pound of flesh gets paid one way or another.

Steven,
Do you think the course is crowded so they want to discourage guests? That's one way to do it.

Honestly, I think they are getting it in line with the other courses in the area (Philadelphia). We are also hosting a tour event next year and I think they believe that maybe guest play will increase because of that (just a guess on my part). Perhaps this is a way to both monetize that as well as keep the tee sheet somewhat open?

[A.G._Crockett]

    The Chambers Group is highly regarded? Not by me. They’re very good at slickly convincing people to spend way more more than is necessary. That’s how they make money.

Your opinion, Jim, and nothing more than that.

[A.G._Crockett]

    The Chambers Group is highly regarded? Not by me. They’re very good at slickly convincing people to spend way more more than is necessary. That’s how they make money.

Exactly. 

Private clubs aren't some sort of black box that only "the consultants" like Chambers, McMahon Group, Peacock & Lewis, etc. are able to understand, and guide strategically.

Every club has the resources internally to chart a proper course for said club, the business model is really quite simple.

One time a club I knew of was facing a key decision and I thought to myself "wonder how XYZ GC would handle this"...??  (best run club anywhere IMO)

So, I called up to Long Island and got the GM on the line (a friend of mine) and asked if they used "consultants" when facing various decisions of consequence, his response:

"Oh no.  Chris, what we do is get 10 smart guys in a room and figure it out on our own, we prefer to keep the money on our hip."   

It’s pretty tiring to try to rationally discuss stuff with guys who only want to tell you how much more they know and how smart they are, and how much a club about which they know little or nothing has screwed the pooch.  Forgive me if I take the word of our board, long range planning committee, building committee, and general manager over two random guys on a chat board, even if one of them did go to NC State. 


I tried to discuss this, but I think I’ve been pontificated at just about enough.  See ya…

[Chris Hughes]

    The Chambers Group is highly regarded? Not by me. They’re very good at slickly convincing people to spend way more more than is necessary. That’s how they make money.

Exactly. 

Private clubs aren't some sort of black box that only "the consultants" like Chambers, McMahon Group, Peacock & Lewis, etc. are able to understand, and guide strategically.

Every club has the resources internally to chart a proper course for said club, the business model is really quite simple.

One time a club I knew of was facing a key decision and I thought to myself "wonder how XYZ GC would handle this"...??  (best run club anywhere IMO)

So, I called up to Long Island and got the GM on the line (a friend of mine) and asked if they used "consultants" when facing various decisions of consequence, his response:

"Oh no.  Chris, what we do is get 10 smart guys in a room and figure it out on our own, we prefer to keep the money on our hip."   

It’s pretty tiring to try to rationally discuss stuff with guys who only want to tell you how much more they know and how smart they are, and how much a club about which they know little or nothing has screwed the pooch.  Forgive me if I take the word of our board, long range planning committee, building committee, and general manager over two random guys on a chat board, even if one of them did go to NC State. 


I tried to discuss this, but I think I’ve been pontificated at just about enough.  See ya…

Hi A.G.,


Does "big purple elephant" ring a bell?

[SB]

My experience as a consultant is that people don't hire consultants because they want advice.  They hire consultants because they want someone to write an official report that agrees with whatever they want to do.  If the McMahon group writes a report saying your club should spend $30M on a renovation, it's because the President/Board wants a $30M renovation, not because McMahon wants it.  They are not a contractor who gets paid by the size of the job.


After 25 years in the business, I often use consultants for projects because I can often spend $5K to have an actual expert save me $300K. 



On the other hand, if your goal is to absolutely piss away money, the quickest way is to do it is to put 10 members in a room and have them call the most expensive club in town for advice.  By the end of the call, you will have a $30M renovation on your hands and will need to call the McMahon Group for a report so you can sell it to your membership.

[Rob Marshall]

Do most boards have the best interest of the club in mind or are they comprised of members with their own personal agenda they want to push thru. Based on 34 years at a private club. I’ve seen both.

[Jim_Coleman]

Rob:  For sure there are both. The one’s pushing their personal agendas believe they are acting for the benefit of the club. I suspect that is because the club is way more important to them than it is to the majority of members, yet they assume what they want is shared by most. So, overly expensive projects get approved. The consultants are effective marketers - good at convincing people they should buy something they really don’t need.

[Chris Hughes]

My experience as a consultant is that people don't hire consultants because they want advice.  They hire consultants because they want someone to write an official report that agrees with whatever they want to do.

Bingo.  A rubber stamp for the personal agenda of a few.



On the other hand, if your goal is to absolutely piss away money, the quickest way is to do it is to put 10  (dumb)  members in a room and have them call the most expensive club in town for advice.

Amazing how many private club boards fully embody what you describe here.

[Chris Hughes]

Rob:  For sure there are both.


The one’s pushing their personal agendas believe they are acting for the benefit of the club. I suspect that is because the club is way more important to them than it is to the majority of members, yet they assume what they want is shared by most. So, overly expensive projects get approved.

The consultants are effective marketers - good at convincing people they should buy something they really don’t need.

Spot on.


The best clubs have a culture/history that is indelibly imprinted and it's unlikely anyone could ever corral enough power to effect significant change and take the club off the proven path that has made it so successful/desirable. 


Other clubs, aren't so lucky...


A smart guy I've learned a lot from once related this story:




The other story relates to a friend of mine from Tulsa, OK who joined **m****e 30 years ago.

In the first few days that he was a member, an old member approached him and said: 

"I understand that you're a new member.  Why did you join **m****e ?"

My friend went on to list the reasons. 

The old member then replied: 

"So you joined **m****e because you loved everything about it, just the way it is.  Please make sure that you preserve "The" **m****e that you wanted to join and please don't make any attempts to change it."

Too often today, new members want to change the club just a few years into their membership.

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