News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
It has to be in the conversation.


Start with a driveable par 4 with a great green and then just a wonderful collection of fabulous unique golf holes with two world class par 3s. The par 5 18th seems simple but the bunkers are everywhere you want to hit it so it forces you to think and maneuver.


The back 9 at Pasatiempo is better but that's world class and 75 miles away. 




Joe Zucker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is the back nine at Lake Merced the best 9 holes in the Bay Area.
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2024, 09:48:19 PM »
It's certainly very good. Rather than offering all the points where I agree, I'll offer two problems I see in the back 9.


First, I did not love #11.  Unless the wind is blowing into you, it's fairly easy for a single digit handicap to get over the bunker and down the hill.  Any drive that is hit between 240 and 300 ends up in the same place (I have the same complaint about #5 where most balls collect at the bottom of the hill).  Secondly, the clear strategy for #18 if you are playing medal play is to aim for 15 tee off the tee on 18.  There is absolutely no sense in taking on the boundary line and trees on the left.  It may be against the spirit of the hole, but I would be aiming right of the fairway bunker every day if I were a member.   The bunkering in the layup zone is fantastic and makes for a very thought provoking shot. 


I loved the day I spent at Lake Merced earlier this year, but those two flaws stood out to me right away when I was playing #11 and #18.

John Foley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is the back nine at Lake Merced the best 9 holes in the Bay Area.
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2024, 08:38:01 AM »
Yup! Have not played SF or Cal Club but was surprised how mush more I liked it than Olympic.
Integrity in the moment of choice

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is the back nine at Lake Merced the best 9 holes in the Bay Area.
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2024, 09:10:53 AM »
The back-9 at Harding Park is pretty good too! :)

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is the back nine at Lake Merced the best 9 holes in the Bay Area.
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2024, 11:13:57 AM »
As is the back nine at Berkeley CC!

Matt Schoolfield

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is the back nine at Lake Merced the best 9 holes in the Bay Area.
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2024, 03:34:56 PM »
It's certainly very good. Rather than offering all the points where I agree, I'll offer two problems I see in the back 9.

First, I did not love #11.  Unless the wind is blowing into you, it's fairly easy for a single digit handicap to get over the bunker and down the hill.  Any drive that is hit between 240 and 300 ends up in the same place (I have the same complaint about #5 where most balls collect at the bottom of the hill).  Secondly, the clear strategy for #18 if you are playing medal play is to aim for 15 tee off the tee on 18.  There is absolutely no sense in taking on the boundary line and trees on the left.  It may be against the spirit of the hole, but I would be aiming right of the fairway bunker every day if I were a member.   The bunkering in the layup zone is fantastic and makes for a very thought provoking shot. 

I loved the day I spent at Lake Merced earlier this year, but those two flaws stood out to me right away when I was playing #11 and #18.
I want to push back on #11. I've played this hole and ended up with an eagle putt simply because if you run down the hill, you have a good chance of ending up on the green, whereas if you fly the hill, you're going to get an unfriendly kick and end up at the bottom.

I'm also confused by your strategy on 18, where you'd need to place a shot from 270-320 yards, around one tree and under two others, which would leave you still possibly blocked out by a third. From there, even if you're not in the rough, you have a 200+ yard carry to clear the greenside bunker. I mean, it's certainly a strategy for the bomb and gouge folks, but for any course undergoing a (mostly) historical restoration, that's going to be a vulnerability, and it's bad-faith strategies like these that bring in the arborists. If I were to criticize the 18th, which I very much enjoy, it would be that the obvious addition of an earthen berm on the left side would do wonders.

If I were to criticize any of the holes, I'd say that 14 is the weakest in my mind both architecturally and from a pure fun perspective. I presume it exists as it does for historical reasons, and as a chance to let the fair police reward the big hitters. I think that 17 is an underrated hole from a match play mindset, because of it's potential for extremely high variance given the awkward tee shot. And obviously 13 might be the most beautiful par 3 in the bay area.

As far as the original question, I tend to reject "bests" out of hand. For me, Corica North, the front nine at Lake Chabot, GGPGC, both nines at the Meadow Club, and even the front nine Lake Merced are all obvious contenders for the top spot. It just depends on what you value, and I tend to value fun and irreverence, so I got a soft spot for Chabot.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2024, 04:07:44 PM by Matt Schoolfield »
GCA Browser Addon v2.0.1: Firefox/Chrome

My stuff:

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Is the back nine at Lake Merced the best 9 holes in the Bay Area.
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2024, 04:43:04 PM »
There is so much disrespect for SFGC on this DG.


I like the front nine there more than the back, but they are both excellent.

Joe Zucker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is the back nine at Lake Merced the best 9 holes in the Bay Area.
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2024, 05:18:48 PM »
Matt,


Interesting to hear you ball rolled all the way down the hill and onto the green. In my two rounds there, all of the balls (from a variety of handicaps) ended up within 20 yards of one another.  It still seems like a design flaw for shots hit that differently to end up so close together.  I think it's fine in the grand scheme of things for this to happen occasonally, but if we are talking about the "best", it's a detraction for me. 


Regarding 18 - It's not about where the perfect shot ends up, it's what your options are after a <50th percentile shot.  If I aim down the middle of the fairway, I have ~30 yards of room between a bunker and a cart path/lost ball.  That is far too narrow of a slot for me to attempt a driver.  If I aim right of the trap, I have 60 yards of space to work with before I lose a ball and re-tee. 


It's possible I may end up in the bunker or behind those trees, but as long as I am not absolutely stymied, all I have to do is advance the ball 150 yards to have a wedge into the green. And I have near 0% chance of losing the ball.  Aiming right probably has a higher scoring average on by best 20% of drives than if I were to hit a good shot down the fairway.  But on most of my poor drives, I'll be in reasonable shape if I bail to 15 tee.


Lastly, I agree this is against the design of the hole and I can see the limitations of the restoration that were present.  As a sometimes competitive golfer, I play the hole the best I can as I see it.  I acknowledge the downsides this can present.

zachary_car

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is the back nine at Lake Merced the best 9 holes in the Bay Area.
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2024, 05:38:41 PM »
SFGC front 9 gets my vote as well. Although the back 9 has probably my two favorite holes (12 and 14), there's such a tremendous variety among the first nine holes: plungers and climbers (2, 7, 8,); ridge riders (3, 6, and even 1 albeit a tad differently); and a stout par 3 and par 5 (4, 9). I find the routing refreshingly simple yet effective: two holes going north-to-south, with the others going east-to-west
« Last Edit: October 30, 2024, 05:49:48 PM by zachary_car »

Matt Schoolfield

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is the back nine at Lake Merced the best 9 holes in the Bay Area.
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2024, 06:27:40 PM »
There is so much disrespect for SFGC on this DG.


I like the front nine there more than the back, but they are both excellent.

They might get more attention if they ever opened their doors. I know a number of people in this thread were able to play Lake Merced because they hosted an event with Club TFE.

SFGC wants their privacy and they can have it.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2024, 06:29:22 PM by Matt Schoolfield »
GCA Browser Addon v2.0.1: Firefox/Chrome

My stuff:

Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is the back nine at Lake Merced the best 9 holes in the Bay Area.
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2024, 08:10:08 PM »
When I first read Joel's post, I wondered how he would compare the back nine at LMGC with the first nine at SF Club.  At SF, aside from the 8th which is good but not great (relatively short uphill par 4), the first nine has to be among the best in golf.
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back