[Cal Carlisle]

I'm in absolute shock that they are getting $475 for Firestone South.

[DFarron]

I'm in absolute shock that they are getting $475 for Firestone South.

Not worth it and I love the place

[Joe_Tucholski]

The area I think this is easiest to discuss is the golfweek best public courses in every state list.

Looking at the last 3 places I've lived and the lists seem to be based on conditioning and views.

The last course I played, Maryland National, was listed #3 on the 2023 GW public list.  It being #3 on the list meets my definition of most over-rated course I've played.

[Sean_A]

European Club
Berkshire Blue
Broadstone
Panmure
Delamere Forest

Ciao

[Mark Pearce]

Kingsbarns, love the front nine... but somehow the back nine is in Myrtle Beach..


The Old Course at St Andrews, they say it's heaven... maybe heaven is better. 


Royal Montreal Blue, since the Rees -toration it's not even the best course in Royal Montreal !!! The Red is better

Kingsbarns was the first that came to my mind.  But I didn't love the front 9, either.....

[Mark Pearce]

Berkshire Blue

That's an interesting one.  I love it.  What don't you like about it?

[Kyle Harris]

I hesitate to say this because I still love the course, but I think Fishers Island has become a tad overrated and social media probably plays a big role in that.

It’s the prettiest of Seth Raynor’s courses (by far) and a lot of people love them their templates; personally I’ve always respected their approach to maintenance.  But architecturally it was only an 8 on the Doak Scale and there are just as many “meh” holes as at Pebble Beach.  I am shocked when people put it in their top ten.

I feel I even need to call you out for the phrase “only an 8 on the Doak Scale”.


Maybe you need another tour of the New York State Park System. 

[Sean_A]

Berkshire Blue

That's an interesting one.  I love it.  What don't you like about it?

I like BB, but the ending is odd and some holes on the front aren’t inspiring.  Good course, not 100 GB&I imo.

Ciao

[Adam Lawrence]

Berkshire Blue

That's an interesting one.  I love it.  What don't you like about it?

I like BB, but the ending is odd and some holes on the front aren’t inspiring.  Good course, not 100 GB&I imo.

Ciao

I don't know what, if anything, it signifies, but it's certainly the case that, whenever I go to The Berkshire, I almost always find myself playing the Red. I suspect that the 6-6-6 par divide on Red, with par fives that are almost all short by today's standards, makes it easier for a lot of golfers to play to or beat their handicaps, which makes them come off the course with a glow.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Delamere Forest is the one on Sean’s list that surprised me - I have it as underrated (only sneaking in to the occasional GB&I Top-100)…


Don’t give me “the greens aren’t interesting”. There may not be a lot of internal contour but they’re plenty interesting and the greens are sited very well (I.e. using natural features in the routing).

[Dan_Callahan]

There is only one course that stands out for me as being grossly overrated, and that is Harbour Town. I know there are folks on here who absolutely love it, but I thought it was average at best. And I was playing it not long before the RBC Heritage, so it was in pristine condition. I didn't hate it, but for what they charge, and the reverence people have for it ... I just don't get it.

[Adam Lawrence]

Delamere Forest is the one on Sean’s list that surprised me - I have it as underrated (only sneaking in to the occasional GB&I Top-100)…

Don’t give me “the greens aren’t interesting”. There may not be a lot of internal contour but they’re plenty interesting and the greens are sited very well (I.e. using natural features in the routing).

I'm not taking sides re Delamere, but the one thing that has always astounded me is that Fowler built it, with its rather flat greens, at almost exactly the same time as he did Beau Desert, which has greens that are quite opposite!

[Sean_A]

Delamere Forest is the one on Sean’s list that surprised me - I have it as underrated (only sneaking in to the occasional GB&I Top-100)…

Don’t give me “the greens aren’t interesting”. There may not be a lot of internal contour but they’re plenty interesting and the greens are sited very well (I.e. using natural features in the routing).

I'm not taking sides re Delamere, but the one thing that has always astounded me is that Fowler built it, with its rather flat greens, at almost exactly the same time as he did Beau Desert, which has greens that are quite opposite!

Yep, Beau by quite a margin over Delamere. I like Delamere and think the routing is cool, but despite what Ally says, the greens are a bit dull. Not top 100 GB&I for me.

Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

Whether or not you’d bother to take up an offer of a free game at a course you have played before would seem like a decent measure.
Some I’d bite your hand off for. Others less so.
Atb

[Tim Gallant]

Turnberry

[Ben Stephens]

Turnberry

Recently played Turnberry so I can say that I have played the Mackenzie Ross and Martin Ebert versions.


What makes you say it is overrated?

[Ben Stephens]

The Belfry 

[Ben Stephens]

Delamere Forest is the one on Sean’s list that surprised me - I have it as underrated (only sneaking in to the occasional GB&I Top-100)…

Don’t give me “the greens aren’t interesting”. There may not be a lot of internal contour but they’re plenty interesting and the greens are sited very well (I.e. using natural features in the routing).

I'm not taking sides re Delamere, but the one thing that has always astounded me is that Fowler built it, with its rather flat greens, at almost exactly the same time as he did Beau Desert, which has greens that are quite opposite!

Could there be any chance that the greens have been 'neutered' at DF since Fowler's time?

[Adam Lawrence]

Delamere Forest is the one on Sean’s list that surprised me - I have it as underrated (only sneaking in to the occasional GB&I Top-100)…

Don’t give me “the greens aren’t interesting”. There may not be a lot of internal contour but they’re plenty interesting and the greens are sited very well (I.e. using natural features in the routing).

I'm not taking sides re Delamere, but the one thing that has always astounded me is that Fowler built it, with its rather flat greens, at almost exactly the same time as he did Beau Desert, which has greens that are quite opposite!

Could there be any chance that the greens have been 'neutered' at DF since Fowler's time?

Possibly, but (a) I've never heard any such suggestion and (b) when at any time since Delamere was built has there been enough money in British golf to justify a club like Delamere, which does well enough but I'm sure isn't exactly rich rebuilding all its greens?

[cary lichtenstein]

There is only one course that stands out for me as being grossly overrated, and that is Harbour Town. I know there are folks on here who absolutely love it, but I thought it was average at best. And I was playing it not long before the RBC Heritage, so it was in pristine condition. I didn't hate it, but for what they charge, and the reverence people have for it ... I just don't get it.

Dan:
I agree totally. It is too narrow and absolutely no fun to play and my opinion is from a 4 handicap, I can't understand why anyone would want to play it a 2nd time.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Delamere Forest is the one on Sean’s list that surprised me - I have it as underrated (only sneaking in to the occasional GB&I Top-100)…

Don’t give me “the greens aren’t interesting”. There may not be a lot of internal contour but they’re plenty interesting and the greens are sited very well (I.e. using natural features in the routing).

I'm not taking sides re Delamere, but the one thing that has always astounded me is that Fowler built it, with its rather flat greens, at almost exactly the same time as he did Beau Desert, which has greens that are quite opposite!

Yep, Beau by quite a margin over Delamere. I like Delamere and think the routing is cool, but despite what Ally says, the greens are a bit dull. Not top 100 GB&I for me.

Ciao

Horses for courses. I found Beau Desert to be a little lacking in interest away from the greens, also with a few holes that felt a bit out of scale. Delamere - on the other hand - had possibly the best inland topography in GB&I.

[Sean_A]

Delamere Forest is the one on Sean’s list that surprised me - I have it as underrated (only sneaking in to the occasional GB&I Top-100)…

Don’t give me “the greens aren’t interesting”. There may not be a lot of internal contour but they’re plenty interesting and the greens are sited very well (I.e. using natural features in the routing).

I'm not taking sides re Delamere, but the one thing that has always astounded me is that Fowler built it, with its rather flat greens, at almost exactly the same time as he did Beau Desert, which has greens that are quite opposite!

Yep, Beau by quite a margin over Delamere. I like Delamere and think the routing is cool, but despite what Ally says, the greens are a bit dull. Not top 100 GB&I for me.

Ciao

Horses for courses. I found Beau Desert to be a little lacking in interest away from the greens, also with a few holes that felt a bit out of scale. Delamere - on the other hand - had possibly the best inland topography in GB&I.

Fair enough Ally. For me Beau has plenty of interest and variety tee to green. Not quite on par with Delamere though. But the disparity of green quality between the two is far too wide for me to take Delamere over Beau.

Ciao

[Tommy Williamsen]

European Club
Berkshire Blue
Broadstone
Panmure
Delamere Forest

Ciao

Wow, Sean, I don't think there is much difference between Berkshire Red and Blue. Both are very good, though not in the same leagues as Walton Heath or Sunningdale. It is well known how much I love TEC. I think it is excellent. I am very surprised about DF. In the summer, it is crispy brown and as fast and firm as any course in GB&I, which makes it a wonderful test and better than BD, which isn't fast and firm anymore.

[Ben Hollerbach]

There is only one course that stands out for me as being grossly overrated, and that is Harbour Town. I know there are folks on here who absolutely love it, but I thought it was average at best. And I was playing it not long before the RBC Heritage, so it was in pristine condition. I didn't hate it, but for what they charge, and the reverence people have for it ... I just don't get it.

Dan:
I agree totally. It is too narrow and absolutely no fun to play and my opinion is from a 4 handicap, I can't understand why anyone would want to play it a 2nd time.

FWIW: The hole corridors at Harbour Town average ~55 yards wide, Augusta National averages ~62 yards wide.

*Measured at 300 yards from the back edge of the farthest back tee box. Width measured from tree canopy edge to opposite tree canopy edge or hazard edge.

[Sean_A]

European Club
Berkshire Blue
Broadstone
Panmure
Delamere Forest

Ciao

Wow, Sean, I don't think there is much difference between Berkshire Red and Blue. Both are very good, though not in the same leagues as Walton Heath or Sunningdale. It is well known how much I love TEC. I think it is excellent. I am very surprised about DF. In the summer, it is crispy brown and as fast and firm as any course in GB&I, which makes it a wonderful test and better than BD, which isn't fast and firm anymore.

Tommy


I am not as high on Berkshire Red as most either and agree both Red and Blue are 2nd tier heathland behind many others. The Red is more consistent than the Blue. Both have done lovely holes. That said, each course has one of the best par 3s in England. Man those are great holes.


What makes you think Beau doesn’t run firm anymore? I was there last year and it was keen.


TEC…Again, good course, but not presented as it should be. I have no love for the place and always thought it over rated.


Ciao

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