[Rick Sides]

I have not look back in threads to see things on Applebrook but I would imagine it’s been posted on before. I played it for the first time yesterday and what a treat . I easily put it in my top 3 Philly courses. The conditions were spectacular. A lot of short par 4’s to think about . The greens were unique and rolled true. The bunkering was also well placed and unique. The clubhouse and outside area were also top notch! If I lived closer I would join.

[Jim_Coleman]

   I like Applebrook. Maybe the best new course in Philadelphia area, although many here would put it behind Stonewall. But top 3? Uh uh. How about PV, Merion, Aronomink, Cricket and at least 4 Flynn courses?

[Tom_Doak]

   I like Applebrook. Maybe the best new course in Philadelphia area, although many here would put it behind Stonewall. But top 3? Uh uh. How about PV, Merion, Aronomink, Cricket and at least 4 Flynn courses?

Agreed, it's a tough neighborhood.  Top 10 in Philly is tough enough to crack.

[Rick Sides]

The only ones of that group I have not played is Stonewall which I’m dying to play and Aronimink . Otherwise I have played most Philly courses . And I love how people lump pine valley in Philly when it’s in a different state so I’m not counting that . I would say Merion is obviously the best, and I know cricket is great with a long history but I would put Applebrook very close as well as Rolling Green . Applebrook is a course you could play everyday and never get tired of it.

[George Pazin]

Forest for the trees, once you get to this level, you're splitting hairs and largely relying on personal preference.


And PV isn't Philly, I agree with Rick.


I was fortunate enough to walk Applebrook with Gil and the GCA gang back in 2001 at the outing, before it opened. The thing that struck me was how walkable it was, and entirely by design. The tees were incorporated into the green surrounds of the previous green, in at least a few instances. It's not a course where golfers who prefer isolated holes would be happy... I can say, I don't think I'd tire of playing it, it looked endlessly fascinating.


As do Rolling Green, Cricket, Stonewall, etc, etc. The area is an embarrassment of riches..... :-)

[Ed Brzezowski]

PV not Philly?


It's not the skyline of Pittsburg you see when playing there.

[Pierre_C]

Rick, It annoys me PV gets references to Philly. South Jersey is unique in its own. My godson's father (born & raise in Philadelphia) is a member at PV. When asked where he plays golf, he will say Philly rather than S. Jersey. There are clubs across the state line, in NJ, that reference Philadelphia - e.g., Baker's Club of Philadelphia & Trump Nat'l of Philadelphia. None are in PA, but I'm assuming ppl are geographically challenge.

 

The only ones of that group I have not played is Stonewall which I’m dying to play and Aronimink . Otherwise I have played most Philly courses . And I love how people lump pine valley in Philly when it’s in a different state so I’m not counting that . I would say Merion is obviously the best, and I know cricket is great with a long history but I would put Applebrook very close as well as Rolling Green . Applebrook is a course you could play everyday and never get tired of it.

[Rick Sides]

I live in south Jersey so we don’t have much here to claim other than the Jersey devil , blueberries , tomatoes and Pine Valley so Philly you can’t have PV!!! Lol

[Rick Sides]

On which hole at Pine do you see the Philly Skyline ??

[Ed Brzezowski]

On which hole at Pine do you see the Philly Skyline ??

\\


I'd have to go to my pics at home, might be the Short Course.

[Rick Sides]

Love to see the pics Ed. I know from the main course you can’t but perhaps but from part of the short course it’s possible. Interesting fact from the top of a roller coaster at Six Flags in Jackson NJ you can see both the skyline of Philly and NYC!!

[mike_malone]

None of these courses are technically Philly since they aren’t in the city limits. The redone Cobbs would contend with the current leader Union League at Torresdale Frankford for the top in the city and Bala is an able contender.


 So let’s be real. You must allow at least contiguous counties. On this basis Pine Valley is Philly.


I play Applebrook each year and enjoy it but it lacks the challenge of other Philly courses like Aronimink, Cricket, and a few Flynns. It’s a second course for members of other premier clubs in most cases so isn’t designed to be difficult.


It is enjoyable indeed and you aren’t crazy Rick for rating it highly. My bias is that you need to be tested to be at the top.


I watched the PGA Sectional play today at Rolling Green spending time behind the 13th green and at the 14th tee. I can’t recall two back to back holes at Applebrook like these two if you miss the green.

[mike_malone]

Holes that I enjoy at Applebrook are 2,3,4,11,17, 18 and the par four over the hazard with an angled tee shot. So there is much to like. My handicap is 3 less there than RG. Some think we may be a bit high but I’m comfortable saying Applebrook is designed to be more playable and pleasurable than challenging. I think it may be comparable to Stonewall North which is a blast but doesn’t aspire to a top ranking. They have about the same difficulty.

[Rick Sides]

Mayday I love Rolling ! One of my all time favorites. I saw a few guys today scored pretty well there today  . I have caddied for or with a few of those guys and they are next level players !

[Jim_Coleman]

  If PV isn’t closer to Philadelphia City Hall than Applebrook, it’s very close. I agree with Mike! Words rarely spoken.

[Jim_Coleman]

[quote author=Rick Sides
Mayday I love Rolling ! One of my all time favorites. I saw a few guys today scored pretty well there today  . I have caddied for or with a few of those guys and they are next level players !



   Yes, the scores today at RG are low - way lower than at Chester Valley where the other half of the field played. Removing bunkers, widening fairways, leveling greens and removing almost 1,000 trees will make a course easier. Many say it’s better; some don’t. There’s no right answer to that question.

[mike_malone]

Mayday I love Rolling ! One of my all time favorites. I saw a few guys today scored pretty well there today  . I have caddied for or with a few of those guys and they are next level players !

The “hard is better “ argument is worthless. It’s whether a course is challenging or penal. Chester Valley has smaller greens with undulations and more trees, water, and OB. I also usually play there each year. It is more penal and likely was set up more difficult because it is shorter. 
 I think it is great that good golfers score well. We need to be firmer to make our challenge work. Bigger greens with more slope and our uphill approaches need to be firm. Smaller greens with undulations and bunkering resist scoring even if softer.


  I noticed some lessening of challenge at RG today in the setup. 10 tee was in front of the Senior tees!!




  I imagine that if the event was at Applebrook today its scoring would be like ours.


I haven’t heard anyone placing Chester Valley in the conversation as best in Philly.

[Rick Sides]

I will say in defense of Rolling Green also that field today was stacked. I have been around most of those guys that scored well and those boys are studs that could compete on the tour and I’m not kidding .

[Keith Phillips]

As a northern NJ summer resident the 'PV in Philly' question reminds me of the time they tried to change the name of Newark Airport to 'New York's Newark Liberty Airport', which was met with understandable outrage and quickly abandoned.  I'm relaxed about PV as it's in the GAP but I'm less relaxed about the Statue of Liberty and Ellis Island - those are ours! (not to mention the New Jersey Jets and Giants)!!

[Mike Worth]

On which hole at Pine do you see the Philly Skyline ??

\\


I'd have to go to my pics at home, might be the Short Course.

I also live in South Jersey (Mt Laurel). I consider Pine Valley to be a Philadelphia area course.


I was a member at Hidden Creek for 18 years which I always describe as a Jersey shore course (with Atlantic City, Linwood, and Galloway et. al.).


I don’t think there’s any such thing as South Jersey insofar golf is concerned unless you want to consider the new Trout National.


But I don’t think you can see the Philadelphia skyline from Pine Valley. You can see the skyline from Next Door neighbor Trump National (FKN Pine Hill)

[Mike Worth]

the par four over the hazard with an angled tee shot.

14

[archie_struthers]

 


C'mon guys this one too easy on PV ...on a clear day you can see Philly , even Billy Penn's  fedora from the 18th tee box!


As to Applebrook it might not crack the top 5 in Philly architecturally, it certainly does for the experience walking with some great caddies. It's pure golf for sure , and from the range to the golf course and the clubhouse it might be as nice a getaway for the golfer in town.  They take service to a great level , and really work hard to make you comfortable.


They really did their homework when they laid it out , and many of us knew Gil was going to be a great architect just from listening to him talk way back in Tom Pauls' farmhouse more than twenty years ago. Anyone remember?

[mike_beene]

OK New Jersey people, I think I understand. The Capitol of New Jersey overlooks Pennsylvania. Creates general confusion and perhaps a possessory attitude.

[Tim_Weiman]

PV not Philly?


It's not the skyline of Pittsburg you see when playing there.

Ed,


I agree. It is silly not to consider Pine Valley as part of Philadelphia.

[Bob Harris]

PV not Philly?


It's not the skyline of Pittsburg you see when playing there.

Ed,


I agree. It is silly not to consider Pine Valley as part of Philadelphia.

Club House at Pine Valley to City Hall = 15.3 miles
Club House at Applebrook to City Hall = 19.8 miles

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