OT - on-course squabbles etc

[Thomas Dai]

Not squabbles about architecture or conditioning or mowing lines or trees or whether course x should be higher or lower in some ranking than course z but on-course behavioural squabbles, heightened verbal disagreements, physical encounters etc.

Have you ever been involved in one? What was it about? How was it resolved? Did the club/owner/operator take any action against the perpetrator?

Curious as reports of such on-course situations conflicts suggest this kind of thing is on the rise.

Atb

[Carl Johnson]

Fortunately, never had that sort of situation.

[Kalen Braley]

Yes I've seen a few up close that I would describe as verbally aggressive/confrontational and could have turned physical.

A golf buddy I regularly played with a number of years back didn't put up with crap from other groups, and seemed to look forward to a confrontation.

P.S.  They were all on public courses, we never saw them again, and nothing was reported that I was aware of.

[Michael Felton]

Thomas - I personally doubt that things are much worse now than they used to be. I think you probably just hear about them more now. I've never personally been involved in an altercation and I hope it stays that way.

[David_Tepper]

Where I play disputes are usually settled either on the spot with a bare knuckle fistfight or a pistol duel at sunrise the next morning on the 18th green.

[Adam Lawrence]

Where I play disputes are usually settled either on the spot with a bare knuckle fistfight or a pistol duel at sunrise the next morning on the 18th green.

Old skool

[Ben Stephens]

Where I play disputes are usually settled either on the spot with a bare knuckle fistfight or a pistol duel at sunrise the next morning on the 18th green.

Old skool

In California (the Wild West) or the Highlands?

[Daryl David]

I have not seen many on course fights between players, but I have seen some doozies between players and fairway homeowners. 

[David_Tepper]

Ben -

In the case of San Francisco GC, it was on the 7th hole.

DT

https://www.facebook.com/carrgolftravel/photos/the-duel-hole-at-san-francisco-golf-club-was-the-site-of-the-last-official-duel-/10157362265372608/

[Chris Hughes]

I played many many rounds at Bethpage between 2002 and 2014, there are some interesting personalities in the mix at the park. 


Occasionally saw a few minor squabbles around the 1st tee, but nothing of note.   


Away from that, one particular incident stands out...


We're playing the Red course on a Saturday morning, I'm sure we were in either the 8:04, 8:12, or 8:20 time slot. 


Bethpage is always busy but if you get off before 8:28 you have a reasonable chance of playing the round at a decent pace. 


We had a regular group but one guy couldn't make it so our buddy Joe (a commercial contractor working jobs in the city) brought someone he knew from a job site, obviously an immigrant and turned out to be from Nicaragua.  Good player. 


We were directly behind the group in front of us but as we walked off #3 tee the group behind us said something, we just laughed and let it go. 


#4 is a good par-3 and we were waiting, the group of Long Island bozos* behind us (on #3 green) decided to get really vocal about pace of play -- really vocal.


Well this guy from Nicaragua calmly walked all the back over to them and got in their face, and quietly spoke with them.


I have no idea what he actually said but those guys were truly frightened.  They wanted no part of getting anywhere near us for the rest of the day, never saw them again.


Turned out our partner was a Sandinista guerrilla as a very young man -- there was literally nothing anyone at the park might bring to the table that would even register with that guy!!


(*PS...FTR, I love Long Island, and most of the people  )


(PPS...buckle up for the Ryder Cup, gonna get u-g-l-y  )

[Jim O’Kane]

Ben -

In the case of San Francisco GC, it was on the 7th hole.

DT

https://www.facebook.com/carrgolftravel/photos/the-duel-hole-at-san-francisco-golf-club-was-the-site-of-the-last-official-duel-/10157362265372608/

That's amazing. Thanks for this!

[Peter Sayegh]

In the public arena, "tension" between golfers has increased exponentionally since the Covid years.

Sadly, the arbiters in these situations (starters, marshals, ownership), no longer intervene or ameliorate...

...because of the money.

[Michael Morandi]

I was playing with 2 buddies behind a painfully slow foursome of women at our home club in NJ. After the 5th hole I  asked the one woman I knew if we could play through. She graciously acquiesced and as I was walking up the fairway I turned to one of the women and said “Thanks, you will enjoy your round more without us pressuring you from behind.”  Thought it was a throwaway line. Not for her, apparently. She said she was enjoying her round just fine up to that point. Her obliviousness to the impact her slow play was having on others was disturbing. I tried to bite my young but then asked for her name with the intention of saying something to the pro shop. I decided not to. It could have gotten ugly.

[Steve Lang]

    At least 30 years ago, Ms Sheila and I were playing at Silverado Resort in Napa, CA when the group behind us started hitting balls near to us as we waited on the group ahead trying to finish their round.  They should have been able to plainly see that, it wasn't like we were looking for balls in a pond or the woods, or taking too many swings... Anyone that's ever played with us knows we don't play slowly..  The first time I figured was a misjudgment, and I maybe stepped on one ball to bury it, but the next time I got pissed and hit one of their balls in a random direction and one back at them ( i know i shouldn't have done that)... whoa, they didn't like that and one got a little loud at me from a distance...  I turned around again gave them the finger and luckily a Marshal came along and we told him what happened.  We chalked it up to too much alcohol and too much sun... We finished without any bloodshed, turned in our rental clubs and went in and had a peaceful dinner.

[Rob Marshall]

Nothing bothers be more than looking back and seeing someone waiting on my group. I grew up going off as soon as we could see with my father and his friends. Usually in two fivesomes, with permission from the owner. Semi private club and no one and I mean no one every waited on us. I’ve never forgotten that. Some people just never get it

Somewhere along the line we lost respect for other people…..

[Phil Young]

Chris, as another "son of Bethpage," I also have an unusual Bethpage squabble to pass along. In the late 1950s to mid-1960s, my oldest brother would spend on Friday night in the parking lot and sign in for a foursome (you could do it that way back then) consisiting of him, my dad, my uncle and aunt. She was an outstanding player at that time and had a passion for the Black course.

During one round, despite everyone being held up with slow play, the 4-some behind my family had enough and decided that the cause of the delay was the woman in the group ahead of them. As my family was standing in the 15th fairway waiting on the group to finish up on the green, one in the group behind hit his tee shot without any notice or yelling "Fore" and it nearly hit my aunt. My uncle, who was also a very good player, looked back at the guy, walked to his bag, pulled out and dropped a ball and hit a low stinging shot back at him with a 3-iron that landed, took one bounce and hit him in the chest. My uncle stood there and looked him down and then, when the green was clear, they finished the hole.

For some strange reason, when they got to the green and looked back, the group behind them could be seen walking in...true story.

[Sean_A]

It’s a shame there isn’t a fast lane for golf, but then most people would be in that lane because most people think they play fast.

Sorry, no fisticuffs to report. Although I did some shouting on the 17th a few weeks back when we were getting bombed from guys on the 2nd tee.

Ciao

[Matt Schoolfield]

It’s a shame there isn’t a fast lane for golf, but then most people would be in that lane because most people think they play fast.

Sorry, no fisticuffs to report. Although I did some shouting on the 17th a few weeks back when we were getting bombed from guys on the 2nd tee.

Ciao

This misunderstands what causes most backups on a golf course. Even fast players will back up as the day goes along unless certain course conditions are met (typically 12min+ tee time intervals).

Here is my research on it, which is mainly based on:

Riccio, Lucius. "Analyzing the pace of play in golf: the golf course as a factory." International Journal of Golf Science 1.2 (2012): 90-112.

It would be interesting to twin par 3 holes utilized, like RTJ built at Raymond Memorial, so that when there is an exceptionally slow group, they would be easily passable by fast groups. However, it's important to remember that courses do have a maximum speed limit, based on incorrectly spaced gates (typically par 5 -> par 3 holes), but as technology improves and more holes become reachable, every sustainable pace for every course will slow down.

[Sean_A]

It’s a shame there isn’t a fast lane for golf, but then most people would be in that lane because most people think they play fast.

Sorry, no fisticuffs to report. Although I did some shouting on the 17th a few weeks back when we were getting bombed from guys on the 2nd tee.

Ciao

This misunderstands what causes most backups on a golf course. Even fast players will back up as the day goes along unless certain course conditions are met (typically 12min+ tee time intervals).

Here is my research on it, which is mainly based on:

Riccio, Lucius. "Analyzing the pace of play in golf: the golf course as a factory." International Journal of Golf Science 1.2 (2012): 90-112.

It would be interesting to twin par 3 holes utilized, like RTJ built at Raymond Memorial, so that when there is an exceptionally slow group, they would be easily passable by fast groups. However, it's important to remember that courses do have a maximum speed limit, based on incorrectly spaced gates (typically par 5 -> par 3 holes), but as technology improves and more holes become reachable, every sustainable pace for every course will slow down.

No, I understand that backups are created by a variety of reasons. I am only pointing out that those caused by behavioural choices are rarely owned by the guilty parties. Nobody thinks they are slow.


Ciao

[Dan_Callahan]

Back in the early 2000s, I was playing at Heathland in Myrtle Beach. The foursome ahead of us … dudes in their 20s … were playing a match. At one point, they sent a guy back to re-tee when he couldn’t find his ball. He was steaming when he got to the tee, hit his ball without saying a word to us, and then drove off. We got out to the fairway and were waiting to hit our second shots when all of a sudden an honest to god brawl broke out on the green. Two of the guys were rolling on the ground throwing punches. This was back when golf spikes were still allowed, and they tore the crap out of the grass.


They were waiting for us at the next tee and let us play through. One guy had blood streaming from his nose and down his shirt.


The best part was after the round, I saw them inside paying for a replay and a bucket of beer.

[Kalen Braley]

It’s a shame there isn’t a fast lane for golf, but then most people would be in that lane because most people think they play fast.

Sorry, no fisticuffs to report. Although I did some shouting on the 17th a few weeks back when we were getting bombed from guys on the 2nd tee.

Ciao

This misunderstands what causes most backups on a golf course. Even fast players will back up as the day goes along unless certain course conditions are met (typically 12min+ tee time intervals).

Here is my research on it, which is mainly based on:

Riccio, Lucius. "Analyzing the pace of play in golf: the golf course as a factory." International Journal of Golf Science 1.2 (2012): 90-112.

It would be interesting to twin par 3 holes utilized, like RTJ built at Raymond Memorial, so that when there is an exceptionally slow group, they would be easily passable by fast groups. However, it's important to remember that courses do have a maximum speed limit, based on incorrectly spaced gates (typically par 5 -> par 3 holes), but as technology improves and more holes become reachable, every sustainable pace for every course will slow down.

No, I understand that backups are created by a variety of reasons. I am only pointing out that those caused by behavioural choices are rarely owned by the guilty parties. Nobody thinks they are slow.


Ciao

Sean,

I would add the caveat that it takes the entire group to realize they are slow to make a difference.  I've been in such groups where 1 or 2 guys won't accept their slow pace but feel entitled to "enjoy the day" and not be rushed. And on a few occasions my playing partner and I just played ahead of them as a two some...

[Ian Mackenzie]

This thread is both sad and applicable as the decrease in overall (American) civility has inevitably spilled onto the links.


Whenver Anmericans mix 1) alcohol 2) heat 3) sports and 4)waiting on others, you frequently see abhorent behavior.
It's not even newsworthy anymore; it's just expected so much so that there are social media sites dedicated to showing us voyeurs just how low others have stooped.


Just how many more times do we have to see some liqured-up dip-shit fall over after hitting his tee shot or some equally dim-witted ass-tard running over someone with his cart or, better yet, another a-hole who gets butt-hurt when a rando behind him hits into them causing ZERO damage or presenting zero threat. But, god damn, it was disrespectful, so let's settle it with our fists.


Please tell me otherwise, but this is 98% a US male issue and should be called out as such.


Probably a direct correlation between the number of incidents and the overall rise of social media.

[Dan_Callahan]

Please tell me otherwise, but this is 98% a US male issue and should be called out as such.

Not sure I've ever seen violence at an American sporting event that can come close to matching what goes on around the world with soccer/football games. Particularly in the UK. So no, this sort of behavior is not confined to the US.

[Bruce Katona]

Dan Callahan:

Thank you for that reply & you beat me to it. 

Football fans make Philadelphia Eagles American football fans at The Linc look like The All-Boys Choir - look at the latest Euro 2024 - flares in the stands, storming the pitch & hooliganism.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Dan Callahan:

Thank you for that reply & you beat me to it. 

Football fans make Philadelphia Eagles American football fans at The Linc look like The All-Boys Choir - look at the latest Euro 2024 - flares in the stands, storming the pitch & hooliganism.

I get it. That's well documented in other sports.


This topic is "on-course" squabbles, not "in any-stadium/any sport" squabbles....
Fan violence in a violent game like football with decades old rivals and hours of tail-gating has been the norm since the NFL formed.


Sure.


But, boys, this is golf and that douche-bag mentality is coming to this game now.