Venues for Scottish Open

[Tommy Williamsen]

Realizing that the SO has been called by different names, beginning with the second 1996 tournament, the venues tend to be recent builds. Loch Lomond held it from 1996 to 2010. In 1997, it moved to Links courses so players could better prep for the Open. Castle Stuart had it for four of the next six years, with stops at classic Gullane and Royal Aberdeen. In 2017, they went to Dundonald, Gullane again, and until 2026, Renaissance holds the tournament.


Are newer courses purposefully used, is it a coincidence, or do they offer the best incentives? Just curious.

[Niall C]

For many of the years you mention, Aberdeen Asset Management were the sponsor and my understanding is that their then CEO Martin Gilbert had a hand in deciding where the tournament went. I also seem to recall that the Scottish Government in the Alex Salmond days chipped some money in and also had a say although I think they were more concerned it didn't go to a men only club rather than going somewhere else specifically.


Niall

[Ally Mcintosh]

They also started to say after the Carnoustie years that they would always keep it away from courses on The Open rota.

[David_Tepper]

Going even further back, wasn't it played at Gleneagles in the 1980's & early 90's?

[Michael Whitaker]

I think they want it to be held on a “links” type course… which makes sense to me as Scotland is the home of Links Golf. So, let’s think about which links venues would be capable of hosting an event of this size. There aren’t that many that aren’t on the Open Championship rota… one of the St
Andrews courses (New or Jubilee), Royal Aberdeen, Cruden Bay, Gullane 1, or Turnberry. That’s about it. From a marketing standpoint, I guess it makes sense for Renaissance. But, Turnberry would be a great venue. With Trump’s connection I doubt it would ever go there, so that leaves Gullane, Royal Aberdeen, St Andrews New & Jubilee as the only possibilities. By all accounts Gullane was a great success. I assume marketing money makes the final determination, but I’d like to see the event return to Gullane.


If links golf is not a determining factor, I think Gleneagles is the best choice.

[Thomas Dai]

I seem to recall Loch Lomond also holding it or was that a similar pre-Open event under another name?
It was held at Royal Aberdeen at short notice when for some reason I’m not aware of Turnberry dropped out or was dropped. Explanation welcome. Just shows how good Royal Aberdeen is that it was able to ‘jump-in’ at the near last minute.
Atb

[Tom_Doak]

The sponsor has a say in the venue for many tournaments.  Obviously they wouldn’t move the LA Open from Riviera if the sponsor wanted to, but why would they want to?


From the Tour’s perspective, they’d rather go back to the same venue where all of the infrastructure stuff is already solved; and the players would generally prefer not to have to learn a new course.


It will definitely continue to be held on links venues because the players all see it as preparation for conditions at The Open.

[Marty Bonnar]

A brief history of the event:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Open_(golf)

[Wayne_Kozun]

With Trump’s connection I doubt it would ever go there, so that leaves Gullane, Royal Aberdeen, St Andrews New & Jubilee as the only possibilities. By all accounts Gullane was a great success. I assume marketing money makes the final determination, but I’d like to see the event return to Gullane.

Why not North Berwick? Or Kingsbarns?

[Adam Lawrence]

With Trump’s connection I doubt it would ever go there, so that leaves Gullane, Royal Aberdeen, St Andrews New & Jubilee as the only possibilities. By all accounts Gullane was a great success. I assume marketing money makes the final determination, but I’d like to see the event return to Gullane.

Why not North Berwick? Or Kingsbarns?

North Berwick tops out at 6,551 yards. I dare say they could find some stupid back tee locations if they wanted to, but why would they want to?

[Jeff Schley]

With Trump’s connection I doubt it would ever go there, so that leaves Gullane, Royal Aberdeen, St Andrews New & Jubilee as the only possibilities. By all accounts Gullane was a great success. I assume marketing money makes the final determination, but I’d like to see the event return to Gullane.

Why not North Berwick? Or Kingsbarns?

North Berwick tops out at 6,551 yards. I dare say they could find some stupid back tee locations if they wanted to, but why would they want to?

Agree, would have to make it a par 68 probably as well. Keep 11 as a par 5, but convert 18 to a par 3.  While we are talking hypothetical.

I like the Royal Aberdeen idea, great course. Length is just one defense for links, weather/firm and fast are the best.

[Mike Bodo]

I'd love to see a sequence as in 2019 when the Irish and Scottish Opens and the Open Championship were held in consecutive weeks. Not sure why the Irish Open moved to Sept., but I thought this comprised a compelling three week stretch of non-PGA Tour golf. Don't know about the rest of you, but I'd much rather have watched/followed the Irish Open this past week as opposed to the third consecutive PGA Tour birdie-fest event at the John Deere. The PGAT should just kill that tournament and partner with the DP World Tour on both the Irish and Scottish Opens and make them signature events with rotating venues. Both would be great build-up's to the Open Championship, which would culminate this special three week stretch of links golf. Heck, throw in a heathland or parkland course on occasion to mix things up, as neither has to be played on a links course every year. But much like the U.S., Canadian, Australian and other national opens, they should move around annually.

[Wayne_Kozun]

With Trump’s connection I doubt it would ever go there, so that leaves Gullane, Royal Aberdeen, St Andrews New & Jubilee as the only possibilities. By all accounts Gullane was a great success. I assume marketing money makes the final determination, but I’d like to see the event return to Gullane.

Why not North Berwick? Or Kingsbarns?

North Berwick tops out at 6,551 yards. I dare say they could find some stupid back tee locations if they wanted to, but why would they want to?

How long is Gullane?  I didn't think it was any longer than North Berwick but maybe they added some back tees?  Or do they use a hybrid course at Gullane?

[Brian Finn]

Realizing that the SO has been called by different names, beginning with the second 1996 tournament, the venues tend to be recent builds. Loch Lomond held it from 1996 to 2010. In 1997, it moved to Links courses so players could better prep for the Open. Castle Stuart had it for four of the next six years, with stops at classic Gullane and Royal Aberdeen. In 2017, they went to Dundonald, Gullane again, and until 2026, Renaissance holds the tournament.

Are newer courses purposefully used, is it a coincidence, or do they offer the best incentives? Just curious.

Building on some earlier comments regarding (lack of) length of older links, I would think that at least one reason newer courses are used is their length.  While I think we all know there is not a course "long enough" to contain current elite players, the tours generally do seem to prefer playing as long as possible.  Renaissance plays at over 7,200 as a par 70.  The modified course played at Gullane was 7,100 par 70.  Dundonald was over 7,200.  Castle Stuart was nearly 7,200.  Since they have gone back to links courses, only Royal Aberdeen has been on the shorter side at about 6,900.  With no non-public information, I would guess they have at least taken a good look at Dumbarnie, which can stretch to over 7,600 and has already hosted the ladies event.

[Ronald Montesano]

I love the idea of Irish-Scottish-Open as a three-week stretch.

I understand why the PGA Tour supports communities across the USA, and not just ones that offer classic, old courses. I hope they stay at John Deere and other such venues for decades beyond our passing.

I love the birdie fests on the PGA Tour. They balance well with the par fests.

I'd propose Western Gailes and St. Andrews New, in addition to Royal Aberdeen.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Unfortunately there was never any support from the pro’s for The Irish Open two weeks prior to The Open. Most wanted one week of practice on a links course, none wanted two.

[Tom_Doak]

[/size]
Not sure why the Irish Open moved to Sept., but I thought this comprised a compelling three week stretch of non-PGA Tour golf.

Precisely why it doesn't happen that way anymore.


The PGA TOUR is not interested in allowing a three week stretch of non-PGA TOUR golf.  Also, note that the Scottish Open is now an official co-sanctioned PGA TOUR event.

[Sean_A]

With Trump’s connection I doubt it would ever go there, so that leaves Gullane, Royal Aberdeen, St Andrews New & Jubilee as the only possibilities. By all accounts Gullane was a great success. I assume marketing money makes the final determination, but I’d like to see the event return to Gullane.

Why not North Berwick? Or Kingsbarns?

North Berwick tops out at 6,551 yards. I dare say they could find some stupid back tee locations if they wanted to, but why would they want to?

How long is Gullane?  I didn't think it was any longer than North Berwick but maybe they added some back tees?  Or do they use a hybrid course at Gullane?

The Gullane Scottish Open used a few holes from #2. The recent rejected course proposals would have added significant yardage to #1…I think about 400 yards. I am sure that yardage was a nod to hosting a pro event or big amateur event.

Ciao

[Michael Whitaker]

I love the idea of Irish-Scottish-Open as a three-week stretch.

I understand why the PGA Tour supports communities across the USA, and not just ones that offer classic, old courses. I hope they stay at John Deere and other such venues for decades beyond our passing.

I love the birdie fests on the PGA Tour. They balance well with the par fests.

I'd propose Western Gailes and St. Andrews New, in addition to Royal Aberdeen.

Ah, yes! I forgot about Western Gailes. It would make for a fabulous venue.

[Niall C]

....and then there is Glasgow Gailes, Dundonald and I suppose even Barassie. There's probably quite a few possible venues if you don't insist on 7,000 yards and a par of 70-72.


Niall

[Michael Whitaker]

The Gullane Scottish Open used a few holes from #2. The recent rejected course proposals would have added significant yardage to #1…I think about 400 yards. I am sure that yardage was a nod to hosting a pro event or big amateur event.

Ciao

Sean - for the Scottish Open they dropped the 1st and 17th holes from Gullane 1... which makes a lot of sense as those holes offer no challenge to elite players. Those holes were replaced with #7 & #8 from Gullane 2. The routing was 14 (G1), 7 (G2), 8 (G2), 15 (G1), 16 (G1), 18 (G1). A few new tees were built to make the holes play longer, especially on #18 where a new tee was added halfway up the left side of the 17th. Even with that tee increasing the length to 460 the hole was driver/pitch for the pros. Total length was 7110 - Par 70.   

[Mike Bodo]

Unfortunately there was never any support from the pro’s for The Irish Open two weeks prior to The Open. Most wanted one week of practice on a links course, none wanted two.

When the Irish Open was last held ahead of the Scottish Open and Open Champtionship in 2022 they had a decent field with some good names in it, i.e. Adrian Meronk (winner), Ryan Fox (runner up), Shane Lowry, Lucas Herbert, Aaron Rai, Sergio, Padraig Harrington, Min Woo Lee and a few others. I think if the event were held at Ireland's more compelling and interesting courses, they'd attract a deeper, stronger field. Are you telling me K-Club and Mount Juliet is the best the tourney can do certain years given the plethora of amazing links courses scattered throughout both parts of Ireland? Heck, even if you go inland Adare Manor would be a supberb test. Most PGA Tour players who qualified for the Open Championship are already there prepping, which is why they skipped both the Detroit and John Deere events. The best form of practice and adjusting to links courses is through competition, so why not play the three tourney's consecutively? Not to mention there aren't going to be a lot of guys who fly across the pond again in Sept. when their season's over following the FedEx Cup Playoff and they take serious time off.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Fair point, Mike - hadn’t actually realised the strength of field last time it was done. Perhaps (more likely) it is as much to do with money - The Irish open has swung between a high profile / Rolex pot and an also-ran…


I have always loved - and have written about - the idea of a “links swing” though, finishing with the Dutch Open a week after the British… it would need something (money most obviously) to draw folks in as a links champion of the year. Of course, there is the Dunhill Championship to consider as well.

[Niall C]

Mike


I recall a comment from Tom Watson that two weeks of links golf was enough as any more and his swing would be wrecked with the wind. Not sure if that was a facetious comment or not.


Niall

[Ronald Montesano]

TINY DOAK FROM A FEW ABOVE

Quote from: Mike Bodo on Yesterday at 13:06:57Not sure why the Irish Open moved to Sept., but I thought this comprised a compelling three week stretch of non-PGA Tour golf.

Precisely why it doesn't happen that way anymore.The PGA TOUR is not interested in allowing a three week stretch of non-PGA TOUR golf.  Also, note that the Scottish Open is now an official co-sanctioned PGA TOUR event.