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Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Protesters
« on: June 24, 2024, 05:37:21 AM »
Are you surprised?
atb


Later edit - for future reference purposes this thread followed the invasion of the 72nd green at a USPGA tour event by a group of environmental protesters.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2024, 03:40:18 AM by Thomas Dai »

John Handley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Protesters
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2024, 10:00:53 AM »
No but this nonsense has to stop at sporting events. It's only a matter of time that someone actually gets injured. I am ok with people peacefully protesting their cause but many now I feel are protesting just to protest. But that's my opinion.


I find it incredibly narcissistic that people think they have the right to interfere and disrupt events that other people have paid their money to come enjoy and the athletes who work extremely hard and interrupted at their place of work. Whether it is protesting, or some idiot doing it for social media, it needs to stop. I think the deterrent needs to be more severe such as mandatory 30 days in jail and $25K fine. I would hope most idiots may think twice about their behavior if there were real consequences to their actions.


I just do not think it was fair to Scottie or Tom Kim to have to deal with that BS while they are in the heat of battle closing a golf tournament.



2024 Line Up: Spanish Oaks GC, Cal Club, Cherokee Plantation, Huntercombe, West Sussex, Hankley Common, Royal St. Georges, Sunningdale New & Old, CC of the Rockies, Royal Lytham, Royal Birkdale, Formby, Royal Liverpool, Swinley Forest, St. George's Hill, Berkshire Red, Walton Heath Old, Austin GC,

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Protesters
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2024, 10:45:02 AM »
If we are talking about it on this site they were effective and will continue.
AKA Mayday

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Protesters
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2024, 11:36:15 AM »
They needed Peter Jacobsen on the 18th green.

John Handley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Protesters
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2024, 12:28:59 PM »
@Mike Malone -  Do you know what they were protesting?  I bet 99% of people at the tournament or watching don't know.  I don't know and frankly, don't really care.  There tactics were so offensive to me that I would never support them even if I agreed with their issues.  So I would say it was NOT effective.  I am talking about a broader interruption of sport whether it's golf, baseball, football, soccer which we have seen numerous examples recently.



2024 Line Up: Spanish Oaks GC, Cal Club, Cherokee Plantation, Huntercombe, West Sussex, Hankley Common, Royal St. Georges, Sunningdale New & Old, CC of the Rockies, Royal Lytham, Royal Birkdale, Formby, Royal Liverpool, Swinley Forest, St. George's Hill, Berkshire Red, Walton Heath Old, Austin GC,

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Protesters
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2024, 12:35:49 PM »
@Mike Malone -  Do you know what they were protesting?  I bet 99% of people at the tournament or watching don't know.  I don't know and frankly, don't really care.  There tactics were so offensive to me that I would never support them even if I agreed with their issues.  So I would say it was NOT effective.  I am talking about a broader interruption of sport whether it's golf, baseball, football, soccer which we have seen numerous examples recently.


Sports are probably the best place for these protests.


From the protestors' standpoint, they are highly visible places with lots of people who will become easily annoyed, and they are only interrupting a game.


Plus, actual protests on the site of a pipeline or a power plant or a political rally have been outlawed and protestors face violence, heavy fines, and/or lengthy jail sentences for "disturbing commerce".  Those laws have displaced any sort of protest to somewhere safer.  Personally, I think it's those laws that are the problem.

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Protesters
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2024, 12:47:44 PM »
I simply do not see the logic in protesting at a professional golf tournament about whatever they were protesting about.  As far as I can see the only people who are sympathetic to their cause and view their actions are appropriate had that opinion before their protest and anyone else would certainly not be positively moved by their actions. 

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Protesters
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2024, 12:50:14 PM »
I simply do not see the logic in protesting at a professional golf tournament about whatever they were protesting about.  As far as I can see the only people who are sympathetic to their cause and view their actions are appropriate had that opinion before their protest and anyone else would certainly not be positively moved by their actions.


Isn't the whole point of protest to make people think about an issue and maybe change their opinion?


By your logic no one should ever protest, they should only preach to their own choir.

Matt Schoolfield

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Protesters
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2024, 12:58:04 PM »
The whole situation is deeply frustrating.

On the one hand, obviously climate change is the most pressing issue of my generation and those under 40: we know what's happening -- literally the predictions from the 70's are happening almost exactly as they were predicted -- we are already seeing horrific effects (even uprisings/wars) as a result -- we know what we have to do to stop it, but nobody wants to change their lifestyle (we can't even get effective climate-focused lifestyle legislation, like increased density, gas-to-electric mandates, or real transit alternatives, in San Francisco of all places).

On the other hand, the protests are becoming spiteful. Everyone knows it's happening, and anyone who is ignoring their own lying eyes, has wrapped their identity in so much zealotry that it doesn't matter. So the protests effectively exist as overtly annoying folks who the protestors see as complacent. In America, golf is a symbol of those people, so the golf world suffers instead of, say, dressage events. It's not changing any minds, and it's not even informing anyone of anything. It's just saying, if you aren't going to do something substantial, we're going to try to make sure you're miserable, which is ineffective, and probably counter-productive. It makes any good-faith changes or priorities of the sport look like capitulation.

The good news is that professional golf is effectively entertainment, which means these disturbances are effectively symbolic, unlike the concrete filled golf holes at Sebonack. I would expect things could be much, much worse, as any clever chemistry major could do real damage to a golf course if they wanted to, likely without being caught, just walking around the course as a spectator during a practice round.

I'd hope golf culture could could come out strongly in favor of sustainability, but as long as the country club remains a symbol of fuck-you-I've-got-mine, then I'm not holding my breath.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2024, 03:17:00 PM by Matt Schoolfield »

Anthony Butler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Protesters
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2024, 01:00:03 PM »
While it's often difficult to hold two divergent and potentially conflicting views on this topic, I find myself in that position on this protest.

1. This appears on the surface to be a disruptive and nihilistic act insofar as the protestors would rather garner negative attention, not to mention the attention of law enforcement, for their cause -  instead of promoting productive engagement on the issue. To Tom Doak's point, though, a sporting event is perhaps the most likely place to gain attention without suffering too many legal consequences. Will they be successful? I'm reminded of the protests against apartheid that occurred when the Springboks toured Australia in the early 70s before South African teams were banned from international competition for almost two decades. They eventually achieved their goal, but a lot of other factors came into play before the apartheid government gave way to equal rights for all citizens of that country in the early 90s.

2. The reaction of the crowd in chanting USA! USA! USA! along with a lot of other words that caused CBS to cut the audio on their broadcast was both predictable and stupid. Anyone who has studied the history of the USA! knows that many of the rights we take for granted... Women's  vote, the end of slavery, the 40-hour work week were all rooted in protest... the right of peaceful protest that comes with your citizenship and should never be given up. These so-called 'patriots' who think protesting for environmental causes is somehow 'un-American' should be taken behind the nearest building and be given a history lesson... 
« Last Edit: June 24, 2024, 01:02:47 PM by Anthony Butler »
Next!

Chris Hughes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Protesters
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2024, 01:00:18 PM »
I simply do not see the logic in protesting at a professional golf tournament about whatever they were protesting about.  As far as I can see the only people who are sympathetic to their cause and view their actions are appropriate had that opinion before their protest and anyone else would certainly not be positively moved by their actions.


Isn't the whole point of protest to make people think about an issue and maybe change their opinion?


By your logic no one should ever protest, they should only preach to their own choir.

At a minimum, that was an act of criminal vandalism combined with theft of services...

...and from Akshay Bhatia's perspective it was a full-on terror attack.


These days the idea of what constitutes a "protest" is completely out of bounds vs. what a normally functioning society should expect, and allow -- it is truly ridiculous.

Do you really believe that bullshit from yesterday might actually spur someone to "change their opinion"?
"Is it the Chicken Salad or the golf course that attracts and retains members ?"

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Protesters
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2024, 01:14:57 PM »

These days the idea of what constitutes a "protest" is completely out of bounds vs. what a normally functioning society should expect, and allow -- it is truly ridiculous.

Do you really believe that bullshit from yesterday might actually spur someone to "change their opinion"?


Chris:


I didn't see the protest; I don't watch golf on TV except for little bits of the majors.


The very problem nowadays is that no one seems willing to change their opinion on anything, so, no, these protests probably won't help.


But, your parents [or grandparents] probably said the same thing about the Vietnam War protests, or the civil rights protests of the 1960s.  "Can't they just protest peacefully somewhere we don't have to see them?"  Some things are worth protesting about, and it's usually because the government is deaf to those concerns.

Chris Hughes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Protesters
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2024, 01:37:18 PM »

These days the idea of what constitutes a "protest" is completely out of bounds vs. what a normally functioning society should expect, and allow -- it is truly ridiculous.

Do you really believe that bullshit from yesterday might actually spur someone to "change their opinion"?


Chris:


I didn't see the protest; I don't watch golf on TV except for little bits of the majors.


The very problem nowadays is that no one seems willing to change their opinion on anything, so, no, these protests probably won't help.


If you didn't see it, how can you comment on it?

What took place yesterday in no way constituted a "protest" -- it was a criminal act that should be prosecuted harshly.
"Is it the Chicken Salad or the golf course that attracts and retains members ?"

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Protesters
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2024, 01:37:54 PM »
The protesters take that golf relies on good weather more than most, so they should embrace climate change was interesting.  They went out of their way to say they weren't protesting golf alone.....even if their tee shirts said otherwise.  It doesn't matter.  The visual aspects of the coverage they got will outweigh anything they say with most.


And those who think golf should be banned in the name of the environment will still believe that after seeing the evening news.  It was at least partially effective as an anti-golf message.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Protesters
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2024, 02:08:55 PM »
@Mike Malone -  Do you know what they were protesting?  I bet 99% of people at the tournament or watching don't know.  I don't know and frankly, don't really care.  There tactics were so offensive to me that I would never support them even if I agreed with their issues.  So I would say it was NOT effective.  I am talking about a broader interruption of sport whether it's golf, baseball, football, soccer which we have seen numerous examples recently.


John,


I don’t think you understand what I’m saying. It’s like an annoying commercial. You hate it but remember the company name.


I do know what they were protesting but I suggest that if we ignored them they would go away.
AKA Mayday

Dan_Callahan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Protesters
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2024, 03:07:08 PM »
I'm not a fan of these disruptive protests at sporting events (although it's funny how people will cheer for an equally disruptive streaker ...)


I certainly don't feel informed enough about climate change to be critical of anyone else's views. But if I was a person who was 99% certain that our actions over the last 100 years are steering the planet on a path toward global famine and submerged coasts, I would think that causing a short delay at a golf tournament in Cromwell CT would be considered a minor action, right? Seems like they showed a good amount of restraint, if that's how they really feel (and I don't doubt that they do).

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Protesters
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2024, 03:18:00 PM »
Was this the same lot that spray painted a few stones at Stonehenge? If so, no bueno and no sympathy for the group. I don’t want to waste tax payer money on prison, but a stiff fine would do nicely.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Jim_Coleman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Protesters
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2024, 03:23:40 PM »
    I’m all for protests that are legal, organized, substantial and that call the public’s and the government’s attention to a wrong that warrants righting. Vietnam, civil rights and even Israel/Palestine come to mind. But small, disruptive, illegal demonstrations invariably are counterproductive. Rather than call attention to a wrong, they only annoy and anger. I can’t think of an act of vandalism that changed policy.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2024, 03:25:33 PM by Jim_Coleman »

Matt Schoolfield

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Protesters
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2024, 03:40:29 PM »
But small, disruptive, illegal demonstrations invariably are counterproductive. Rather than call attention to a wrong, they only annoy and anger. I can’t think of an act of vandalism that changed policy.
History is littered with exactly these types of protests leading to major changes. Off the top of my head, I can think of the Boston Tea Party, Gandhi's Salt March, and John Lewis nearly being beaten to death trying to cross the Edmund Pettus Bridge. All of these things were "illegal", the Boston Tea Party was explicitly an act of vandalism.

We should expect non-violence from protestors. We should expect the protestors to not endanger peoples' livelihoods. But complaining about some minor vandalism is silly. These kids are going to go to jail. They expect to go to jail, and they're perfectly willing to pay the fines for their civil disobedience, because this is what civil disobedience looks like.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2024, 03:43:51 PM by Matt Schoolfield »

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Protesters
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2024, 03:45:53 PM »
A couple of things immediately came to mind on seeing this incident …..

1) Participant, spectator, staff etc safety -  eg the terrible Monica Seles incident

2) From the golf perspective this quote from an interview with a wise participant herein …. “A game dependent on so much of the earth’s acreage on a shrinking planet with finite resources is inevitably going to be on the wrong side of history..”

Where and on what basis will further protests occur? Hopefully there won’t be any but ……

atb

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Protesters
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2024, 03:47:54 PM »
At a minimum, that was an act of criminal vandalism combined with theft of services...

...and from Akshay Bhatia's perspective it was a full-on terror attack.


A heinous act that took nearly 73 seconds to get under control. Thankfully they had a leafblower on the premises or who knows what might've happened. Just imagine if the playoff had been delayed, or even moved to a different hole. Horrifying to think about, really.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Anthony Butler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Protesters
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2024, 03:51:37 PM »

These days the idea of what constitutes a "protest" is completely out of bounds vs. what a normally functioning society should expect, and allow -- it is truly ridiculous.

Do you really believe that bullshit from yesterday might actually spur someone to "change their opinion"?


Chris:


I didn't see the protest; I don't watch golf on TV except for little bits of the majors.


The very problem nowadays is that no one seems willing to change their opinion on anything, so, no, these protests probably won't help.


If you didn't see it, how can you comment on it?

What took place yesterday in no way constituted a "protest" -- it was a criminal act that should be prosecuted harshly.

What's your opinion on the Jan. 6 'protesters' who actually killed people... should the people who provoked and conducted those activities be prosecuted 'harshly'?
Next!

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Protesters
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2024, 03:53:13 PM »
 8)


I would suggest we pull this thread or as Mayday says "ignore it". While all this "stuff" is critical and important to our lives like politics it has been verboten on this site for many years. There are plenty of places to engage in this discussion if needed. I occasionally stray from the GCS norm but it is always golf related ...pull the plug it has no upside relative to the forum thanks


peace and love to all

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Protesters
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2024, 03:57:33 PM »
       Nothing new. If I remember correctly there were protests against apartheid when Gary Player was prominent.  At least Scottie was happy to see the police at a golf tournament.  Before the green melee my first thought the person shouldn't have run through the bunker, thinking it was media positioning.
       At least we're keeping them off the streets and doing major property damage.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2024, 04:50:23 PM by Pete_Pittock »

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Protesters
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2024, 04:13:33 PM »
8)
I would suggest we pull this thread or as Mayday says "ignore it". While all this "stuff" is critical and important to our lives like politics it has been verboten on this site for many years. There are plenty of places to engage in this discussion if needed. I occasionally stray from the GCS norm but it is always golf related ...pull the plug it has no upside relative to the forum thanks
peace and love to all
Delete the thread if folks and the moderator wish but … golf needs to consider this kind of thing.
It’s protesters. It’s the environment and we’ve debated many times herein golf and its relationship within a modern highly populated society which has numerous different demands and priorities on land and water usage etc. Not time imo to stick one’s heads in the sand and hope something goes away.
Atb