U-S-A

[Tom_Doak]

It's official:  the four Americans who will represent the USA in men's golf at the Paris Olympics are:


Scottie Scheffler
Xander Schauffle
Wyndham Clark*
Collin Morikawa


The reason, of course, is the OWGR is biased against LIV players.  Not disqualifying:  players such as Jon Rahm and David Puig are able to represent their country, because even though their OWGR is deflated, they're the two best players from Spain by a significant margin over whomever is still playing on the European Tour.  But to go as an American, you have to be in the top 15 in the world [Bryson DeChambeau is up to 10th], and also one of the top four Americans, and Clark is somehow still fifth in the world, and Morikawa seventh. 


So, the discrimination against LIV players mostly affects Americans.  U-S-A


In going to the OWGR page to see how they connive their results, I noticed that there is also a separate page with an OWGR Strokes Gained Rating . . . in which DeChambeau is currently 2nd, and Clark 23rd.  The difference is that this rating is based on his average scores in Qualifying Events, while his OWGR is divided by 40, even though he played in only 8 or 10 Qualifying Events. 


It's kind of amazing to see them POSTING a better system and not using it.  But, such are the politics of golf.

[Tim Martin]

DeChambeau was adamant that he would like to be on the U.S. team and I think he is currently a better pick than either Clark or Morikowa.

[Michael Morandi]

It's official:  the four Americans who will represent the USA in men's golf at the Paris Olympics are:


Scottie Scheffler
Xander Schauffle
Wyndham Clark*
Collin Morikawa


The reason, of course, is the OWGR is biased against LIV players.  Not disqualifying:  players such as Jon Rahm and David Puig are able to represent their country, because even though their OWGR is deflated, they're the two best players from Spain by a significant margin over whomever is still playing on the European Tour.  But to go as an American, you have to be in the top 15 in the world [Bryson DeChambeau is up to 10th], and also one of the top four Americans, and Clark is somehow still fifth in the world, and Morikawa seventh. 


So, the discrimination against LIV players mostly affects Americans.  U-S-A


In going to the OWGR page to see how they connive their results, I noticed that there is also a separate page with an OWGR Strokes Gained Rating . . . in which DeChambeau is currently 2nd, and Clark 23rd.  The difference is that this rating is based on his average scores in Qualifying Events, while his OWGR is divided by 40, even though he played in only 8 or 10 Qualifying Events. 


It's kind of amazing to see them POSTING a better system and not using it.  But, such are the politics of golf.

Yes, the LIV discrimination mostly affects team USA.  A friend and former Obama national security director recently gave expert testimony indicating that the Saudis had a hand in September 11. I’m ok with our team being comprised of players who did not take Saudi money. They represent our values.

[James Reader]

I’d be very wary of saying that the OWGR strokes gained ranking is a ‘better’ system. It gives some very strange results at times, particularly for those that have played in very few OWGR qualifying events. Matthew Wolff is 16th; he’s 177th in the Datagolf rankings, which use a ‘better’ strokes gained methodology.

[JohnVDB]

Patrick Cantlay is also ranked above Bryson who is currently #6 amongst Americans. The bigger problem is that only 4 players from one country can compete.  Everyone in the top 15 or 20 should be in the event.

Jon Rahm is still higher that Bryson since he only recently left for LIV so he still has lots of points from the last couple of years. Given his playing (and not playing) in the majors so far this year, he'll be dropping down soon.
All that being said, hopefully LIV and the PGA Tour can figure one something soon to fix the mess that Greg Norman, Phil Mickelson and the Saudi money has created.

[Bill Seitz]

It's almost as if actions have consequences.

[Thomas Dai]

Maybe LIV players who are not otherwise selected could play for a Saudi Arabian national team? This would seem to have happened quite a while ago in relation to other sports and other countries from the Arabian peninsula.

Atb

[Steve Lang]

   Kind of sucks if you're BDeC, seems like the latest us open might count for something, after all swimming & diving and track & field competitors have to prove themselves one last time in olympic trials...

[Tom_Doak]

I’m ok with our team being comprised of players who did not take Saudi money. They represent our values.

Who exactly is the "we" in your values?  American companies are all over Saudi Arabia, and the U.S. government's official policy toward Saudi money is hardly adverse.


In fact, just before coming here, I was reading an article in The Guardian suggesting that the current U.S. government is offering a defense treaty to Saudi Arabia if they will normalize ties with Israel.


The whole trope of dirty Saudi money was promoted by the PGA Tour to try and save the PGA Tour.  If you want to not watch Bryson DeChambeau for taking the money, that's your call, but the PGA TOUR ≠ America, and they should not be the ones to decide who represents us in the Olympics.

[Rob Marshall]

Tom,
Why haven’t you built a course there?


I also agree we are two faced when talking about the Saudi’s.

[Tom_Doak]

Tom,
Why haven’t you built a course there?

My family would not be comfortable with me going to work anywhere in the Middle East, and I would not be comfortable taking $ to send my associates there in my place.


Luckily, there is plenty of good work in America these days, so I won't have to travel as much as I get older.  It takes too much toll on my body.  I still consider international jobs, but the bar for taking one is set VERY high.

[Ian Mackenzie]

TEAMS are also about unity, cohesion and chemistry and, as much as we all love to give BDC a pass cuz he's basically Captin' 'Merica in how he now comports himself, nothing says disunity more than the acrimony over the whole damn LIV affair.


They all knew when they had those 9 figure pens in their hands what it meant to their bank accounts as well as their family lives and they chose to play in a cash-grab intramural resort league with a new light format and a bunch of thumping flair.


Would Bryson be the best guy to put on the team regardless of tour allegiance...?...maybe. He sure proved himself at the PGA and US Open.

But if I'm the captain, I would want the guys in the room to all be ready to take a bullet for each other; not at each other...

[Wayne_Kozun]

I think that LIV golfers not getting enough points hurts other countries more than the US.  Like Australia - where Cameron Smith won't qualify, or South Africa where Louis Oosthuizen won't qualify.

[Ronald Montesano]

Let's see...oh, right, VIL is destroying golf. Forcing everything higher and higher, as the Earth burns. I'm on a rager right now.

Not really concerned with how pleasant BDC 3.0 has become (1.0 was his amateur self, while 2.0 was his Hulk self.) He had a choice, and he took the easy way out. Might be great at Physics, but cannot read the room.

On Team USA, you have the 2023 US Open champ, the 2024 Masters champ, the 2024 PGA champ, and a two-time major winner who came within a couple of cruddy rounds of contending in all three 2024 majors.

Oh, and they remained loyal to the PGA Tour. My Mount Rushmore for 2024.

[Tom_Doak]

TEAMS are also about unity, cohesion and chemistry and, as much as we all love to give BDC a pass cuz he's basically Captin' 'Merica in how he now comports himself, nothing says disunity more than the acrimony over the whole damn LIV affair.


They all knew when they had those 9 figure pens in their hands what it meant to their bank accounts as well as their family lives and they chose to play in a cash-grab intramural resort league with a new light format and a bunch of thumping flair.


Would Bryson be the best guy to put on the team regardless of tour allegiance...?...maybe. He sure proved himself at the PGA and US Open.

But if I'm the captain, I would want the guys in the room to all be ready to take a bullet for each other; not at each other...

Olympic Golf is formatted as a 72-hole, stroke play, individual competition.  There is no team component at all, apart from the entire U.S. Olympic team, including the women golfers who face no criticism for playing for Saudi $ because they don't get as much.  Is there a U.S. golf captain?  Not that I'm aware.


I apologize for bringing up this topic.  But the number of people who, like Ron in the post above, conflate the PGA TOUR with "the good guys" is ludicrous.  There is nobody who's in golf for the money more than the guys in Ponte Vedra Beach.

[Bernie Bell]

TEAMS are also about unity, cohesion and chemistry and, as much as we all love to give BDC a pass cuz he's basically Captin' 'Merica in how he now comports himself, nothing says disunity more than the acrimony over the whole damn LIV affair.


They all knew when they had those 9 figure pens in their hands what it meant to their bank accounts as well as their family lives and they chose to play in a cash-grab intramural resort league with a new light format and a bunch of thumping flair.


Would Bryson be the best guy to put on the team regardless of tour allegiance...?...maybe. He sure proved himself at the PGA and US Open.

But if I'm the captain, I would want the guys in the room to all be ready to take a bullet for each other; not at each other...

Olympic golf is not a team sport.  And there is no captain. 

[Kyle Harris]

Figure Skating has a similar thing with Olympic eligibility.


If you’re good enough to compete for gold you’re also good enough to make money on *insert performance based career here*.


Many otherwise eligible choose the latter.


The more ironic thing here is apparently now people care about golf in the Olympics enough.

[Jerry Kluger]

Somehow people are equating Olympic Golf with golf majors and I am sorry but it isn't close.  Yes, Olympic Gold is the epitome of some sports but not all.  The money, prestige, status, etc. are not there with the Olympic golf. The guys are in contention are very wealthy and I am willing to put my neck out and say that if they were not able to participate in the Olympics it would not mean as much as compared to not being able to play in a major.

[Bernie Bell]

Somehow people are equating Olympic Golf with golf majors and I am sorry but it isn't close.  Yes, Olympic Gold is the epitome of some sports but not all.  The money, prestige, status, etc. are not there with the Olympic golf. The guys are in contention are very wealthy and I am willing to put my neck out and say that if they were not able to participate in the Olympics it would not mean as much as compared to not being able to play in a major.

I think that varies very much by player.  It seemed to mean a very great deal to Rickie Fowler and Lexi Thompson.  Much less to Spieth and McIlroy and others who sat out Rio.

[Michael Morandi]

I’m ok with our team being comprised of players who did not take Saudi money. They represent our values.

Who exactly is the "we" in your values?  American companies are all over Saudi Arabia, and the U.S. government's official policy toward Saudi money is hardly adverse.


In fact, just before coming here, I was reading an article in The Guardian suggesting that the current U.S. government is offering a defense treaty to Saudi Arabia if they will normalize ties with Israel.


The whole trope of dirty Saudi money was promoted by the PGA Tour to try and save the PGA Tour.  If you want to not watch Bryson DeChambeau for taking the money, that's your call, but the PGA TOUR ≠ America, and they should not be the ones to decide who represents us in the Olympics.

Not sure I need a lecture from anyone on American values. I  lost many friends in the World Trade Center. I’ve served in policy roles in Congress. I know we cut deals with countries with which we disagree.  And then you say you wouldn’t feel comfortable building in Saudi Arabia, thanking the fact that there is plenty of work here. Well, there was plenty of golf to be played on tour here as well before the guys took the Saudi money.

[Ian Mackenzie]

The US is fortunate to have a deep bench of players and BDC is just one guy and he may again have his Olympic moment. But i also see Tom's point a little clearer now.


Caitlyn Clark didnt make the USA women's basketball team either and she is having (arguably) the biggest impact on women's sport in general in at least a generation.

[Joe_Tucholski]

The problem I have is I want the best players in the world in events like the majors.  USA golf should also want the best American golfers representing team USA in the Olympics.  The OWGR is no longer a tool to accomplish that objective.


Regarding the thread title, I cringed whenever the U-S-A chant occurred at the US Open.  I do appreciate the chant when the participants are officially representing team USA, like the olympics.

[Craig Sweet]

The Olympics have lost a lot of their luster ever since big money got involved. It feels as if they only serve to sell products and make money...the love of money rules and the love of sport is all but gone.


To be totally honest I don't care who is on the Olympic golf squad so long as it isn't anyone from the 54 Hole Tour.

[Mike_Clayton]

Cam Smith isn't in the Australian team either - but we have Jason Day who almost never plays in Australia. (Take out a World Cup, 2 Presidents Cups and pre PC Aust Open + what was the 2 of 3 Korn Ferry Tour events here he played early on to earn the exemption onto the PGA Tour it's maybe a handful of times in at least 15 years)
It's a pity - both that he's representing Australia and that he never plays here.
And, Smith always plays the Australian PGA and Open.

[Mark Pearce]

The bigger problem is that only 4 players from one country can compete.  Everyone in the top 15 or 20 should be in the event.

That's not just a problem with golf.  Two of my sons went to school with a girl who's ranked in the World top 10 in triathlon but isn't guaranteed a place in the GB Olympic team because they can only select two athletes.