[Michael Morandi]

Can you remember one important drive off the tee except on 18?  Access to the ball in the native area made this a chipping and putting contest. It was entertaining but it didn’t test all golf’s skills.  That’s why I call it a USGA failure. 

[Alex Miller]

Can you remember one important drive off the tee except on 18?  Access to the ball in the native area made this a chipping and putting contest. It was entertaining but it didn’t test all golf’s skills.  That’s why I call it a USGA failure.

What would you shoot from where Bryson drove it today? I can say I would not have broken 85 playing off near-scratch.


I'd venture that you are heavily discounting Bryson's recovery skills because he made it look far easier than it actually is. No other player recovered like he did this week, even from good lies.


The fact that there was an opportunity for him to execute and recover is one of the things often espoused in this discussion group.




Also... what is your proposed "solution"? More planting which is already not necessarily natural? Bring the rough back? Or just say screw it Pinehurst is not a worthy course to host the U.S. Open? Besides Shinny, Oakmont, and maybe Winged Foot what could provide more of a test?

[Tim_Cronin]

The answer to Mr. Morandi's question is simple: This one.


The key to scoring in a U.S. Open is greens in regulation. DeChambeau hit 47 (65 percent) and ranked seventh in the field. Five of the top 12 finishers were in that top seven in GiR, including McIlroy with 48 (67 percent). It comes down to making putts: DeChambeau had 1.72 per hole to McIlroy's 1.75 across 72 holes. (Thanks to his mid-round binge, McIlroy led with 1.6 per hole to DeChambeau's 2 average on Sunday.)


Fittingly, DeChambeau was also better in sand saves (6/10) than McIlroy (3/9).


As for fairways hit, of the top 12 finishers, only McIlroy and Aberg were in the top seven in FH. Sepp Straka hit more fairways than anyone (49 of 56) and finished tied for 56th.


George Low said it decades ago: "Get the ball in the hole." Low score wins.

[Mark Pearce]

An absurd thread, based on an absurd premise.


That was the best Major in years and as a BdC hater and a McIlroy fan, I can't but help admire the brilliance of Bryson's up and down on the last (seriously - how good was that bunker shot?).  The best player over four days won, and the course was compelling viewing.  Far, far better as a test of golf that wall to wall thick rough lined fairways.


Everyone will focus on McIlroy's missed putts (and they were awful) but his club selection on 15 and 18 deserves scrutiny, too.

[James Reader]

Don’t remember what hole it was and all anyone will remember about this Open and Rory will be the two missed short putts, but how about the great shot he hit into the par 5 that got to about 20 for eagle and the dribbled off the green into the crap and he walked off with bogey instead of a simple two putt birdie. I thought that was awful. That said it probably happened to most of the field at some point. There was a lot of luck involved in this Open.

Rory knew as soon as he hit his 2nd on 5 that the ball wasn’t going to get up; it was too far left/too short to make it onto the green. Yes, it was unlucky to end up in quite as bad a spot as it did but the players knew what was required of them and Rory knew that he hadn’t met the test well before the ball landed, let alone before it rolled off the green. I


If it was a pond short of the green (and a guaranteed penalty shot) players would almost certainly not be treading so close to the line with that second shot and no one would be complaining that it was unfair if one didn’t quite make the carry.


Golf was never meant to be fair and courses/set-ups that try to make it so are invariably boring to watch.  Give me Pinehurst and its unpredictable lies over the uniform thick rough of [insert name of typical PGA Tour/“traditional” US Open course] every time.

[David Bowen]

Winning scores for the last 10 years.2015 (June 18-21): Jordan Spieth, 275 (-5); Dustin Johnson, Louis Oosthuizen, 276; Chambers Bay, University Place, Wash.; Entries: 9,882; Low Amateur — Brian Campbell[/size]2016 (June 16-19): Dustin Johnson, 276 (-4); Jim Furyk, Scott Piercy, Shane Lowry, 279; Oakmont (Pa.) C.C.; Entries: 9,877; Low Amateur — Jon Rahm[/color]
[/size]2017 (June 15-18): Brooks Koepka, ^272 (-16); Hideki Matsuyama, Brian Harman, 276; Erin Hills, Erin, Wis.; Entries: 9,485; ; Low Amateur — Scottie Scheffler[/color]
[/size]2018 (June 14-17): Brooks Koepka, 281 (+1); Tommy Fleetwood, 282; Shinnecock Hills G.C., Southampton, N.Y.; Entries: 9,049; Low Amateur — Luis Gagne, Matt Parziale[/color]
[/size]2019 (June 13-16): Gary Woodland, 271 (-13); Brooks Koepka, 274; Pebble Beach (Calif.) G.L.; Entries: 9,125; Low Amateur — Viktor Hovland[/color]
[/size]2020 (Sept. 17-20): Bryson DeChambeau, 274 (-6); Matthew Wolff, 280; Winged Foot G.C. (West Course), Mamaroneck, N.Y.; Entries: none (all-exempt field due to COVID-19 pandemic); Low Amateur — John Pak[/color]
[/size]2021 (June 17-20): Jon Rahm, 278 (-6); Louis Oosthuizen, 279; Torrey Pines Golf Course (South Course), San Diego, Calif.; Entries: 9,069; Low Amateur — none[/color]
[/size]2022 (June 16-19): Matt Fitzpatrick, 274 (-6); Scottie Scheffler, Will Zalatoris, 275; The Country Club (Open Course), Brookline, Mass.; Entries: 9,265; Low Amateur — Travis Vick[/color]
[/size]2023 (June 15-18): Wyndham Clark, 270 (-10); Rory McIlroy, 271; The Los Angeles (Calif.) Country Club (North Course); Entries: §10,187; Low Amateur — Gordon Sargent[/color]
[/size]2024 (June 13-16): Bryson DeChambeau, 274 (-6); Rory McIlroy, 275; Pinehurst R. & C.C. (Course No. 2), Village of Pinehurst, N.C.; Entries: 10,052; Low Amateur — Neal Shipley[/color]
[/size]It is often said that the USGA tries to identify the best player.  Bryson was without a doubt the best player at Pinehurst.  His score was higher than Kaymer's and otherwise right in line with scores in this decade.  Pinehurst has generous fairways.  its greens require excellent shots.  Misses also require an incredibly adept short game.  Compare that to Bethpage where anywhere on the green will stay and putts are relatively straight.  [/color]
[/size]Pinehurst is an entertaining venue. It begs for aggressive tee shots and perfect approaches, which is far more intriguing than a guarded iron off the tee to get it in a narrow fairway so one can play a shot at a green.  [/color]
[/size]Best score won and it wasn't abnormally high or low.  It was a dramatic finish.  I'd give the USGA a rare A+.[/color]
[/size][/color]

[Carl Johnson]

Why not this?  Conduct the tournament at an indoor facility where you hit balls into a screen that reflects a fairway and shows how far and where you hit.  You could have different courses each year.  When your tee ball lands in the fairway, you go on.  If it's in the rough, the you add +0.1, or +0.2, etc. depending on how far you are off line.  Same principal for approach shots.  Putting could be added in.  This approach would be fair for all -- doesn't matter when you tee off -- and luck, chance, weather, etc. would not come into play at all.  I think I like it.  On a personal note, I, too, was pulling for Rory, but Bryson, some how, managed to shoot one stroke better.  So be it.

[Craig Sweet]

Most of the talk before the Open was centered on the greens. They were going to be the "defender of par", the equalizer of the long ball. BDC on Saturday was putting lights out. On Sunday he made clutch putts when he needed them.  Bryson was one of the best getting up and down around the greens.....The tournament was won right there.

[Tom_Doak]

An absurd thread, based on an absurd premise.

I'm on this side.


I detest the idea that the U.S. Open should be all about driving the ball into 20-yard wide fairways with six inch rough to either side.  The 1970s and 1980s setups Mr. Morandi pines for, made a mockery of some of the best golf courses in the world:  Merion, Winged Foot, Pebble Beach, Oakland Hills.  You could barely see the genius of those courses under all that rough.


It was such a mindset, they did the same thing to Pinehurst #2 in the 1990s.  When I saw it after two rounds of "traditional" U.S. Open setups years ago, I posted here that it was like visiting your favorite uncle after he got dementia.  It was lovely to see him again this week with his memory restored.

[Ben Hollerbach]

for the week Bryson hit 57% of his fairways.
That is more than Jon Rahm hit in 2021, Webb Simpson hit in 2012, Tiger Woods hit in 2008, and Ángel Cabrera hit in 2007. It's the same percentage as Ernie Els hit in 1994 and Geoff Oglevy hit in 2006.

This was the 6th time in the past 25 years that a US Open winner averaged less fairways than the field average.

If you're going to pan this US Open as a failure based on one stat, you batter pan the rest of these as well.

[Craig Sweet]

For the championship, DeChambeau made 19 of 22 putts from four to eight feet – 86.4 percent – while the field made just more than 70 percent from that range.

[BHoover]

Pinehurst was fantastic. That’s the “F word” I choose. The guy I wanted to win did not do so in the end. But the course and setup were fantastic. If anyone longs for the US Open setups of the 1950s-80s, well, then I don’t know what to tell you. Those days, thankfully, seem gone.

[George Pazin]

I agree with the last poster completely. I loved everything I saw, even though I was rooting for either Rory or Tony Finau to win.


I'd be happy if the US Open rota consisted of Oakmont, Shinny, Pebble, and #2. Maybe one or two others, like Southern Hills and Merion.

[Jim Hoak]

I have always been a big fan of Pinehurst 2, but I have a vaguely unhappy feeling this morning.  I think the primary culprit was the 14-Stimp speeds on those upside-down-bowl greens.  Once again, people setting up a course thought wrongly that you needed "super-fast" greens to "test" the best players.  People will argue whether or not the course crossed the line of being "unfair" or "silly."  I'm afraid it may have with the green speeds accentuating the rolls, leading to too much luck or randomness in establishing a winner.

[Michael Morandi]

An absurd thread, based on an absurd premise.

I'm on this side.


I detest the idea that the U.S. Open should be all about driving the ball into 20-yard wide fairways with six inch rough to either side.  The 1970s and 1980s setups Mr. Morandi pines for, made a mockery of some of the best golf courses in the world:  Merion, Winged Foot, Pebble Beach, Oakland Hills.  You could barely see the genius of those courses under all that rough.


It was such a mindset, they did the same thing to Pinehurst #2 in the 1990s.  When I saw it after two rounds of "traditional" U.S. Open setups years ago, I posted here that it was like visiting your favorite uncle after he got dementia.  It was lovely to see him again this week with his memory restored.

Maybe I haven’t made myself clear. I don’t want 20 yard wide fairway setups. I like generous fairways, which is why I love my own golf club. But when you consistently miss those wide fairways, you shouldn’t be able to get your club on the back of the ball almost every time as Bryson’s luck in the natives gave him. The native areas were contrived, featuring 75 different plant species, many not native to the area. For the record, I was riveted by this tournament. I loved it. I might even have been converted to being a Bryson fan.  But I don’t expect a US OPEN winner to hit only 5 of 14 fairways off the tee in the final round, especially on a course with these green contours.

[Ben Hollerbach]

Maybe I haven’t made myself clear. I don’t want 20 yard wide fairway setups. I like generous fairways, which is why I love my own golf club. But when you consistently miss those wide fairways, you shouldn’t be able to get your club on the back of the ball almost every time as Bryson’s luck in the natives gave him. The native areas were contrived, featuring 75 different plant species, many not native to the area. For the record, I was riveted by this tournament. I loved it. I might even have been converted to being a Bryson fan.  But I don’t expect a US OPEN winner to hit only 5 of 14 fairways off the tee in the final round, especially on a course with these green contours.

You do realize that during the final round 5 of the 7 greens he missed were missed from the native area and he only actually hit one green from the native area?

[Michael Morandi]

Yes. He was able to miss in the right spots because he was able to get his club on the back of the ball. Even the Golf Channel was having fun noting how lucky he was to draw favorable lies in the native areas.

[Tommy Williamsen]

When BD won at Winged Foot, he only hit 23 of 56 fairways for the week. Because the rough was so thick, prognosticators predicted that only the straightest drivers would win. It seems strength is the deciding factor.

[Ben Sims]

An absurd thread, based on an absurd premise.

I'm on this side.


I detest the idea that the U.S. Open should be all about driving the ball into 20-yard wide fairways with six inch rough to either side.  The 1970s and 1980s setups Mr. Morandi pines for, made a mockery of some of the best golf courses in the world:  Merion, Winged Foot, Pebble Beach, Oakland Hills.  You could barely see the genius of those courses under all that rough.


It was such a mindset, they did the same thing to Pinehurst #2 in the 1990s.  When I saw it after two rounds of "traditional" U.S. Open setups years ago, I posted here that it was like visiting your favorite uncle after he got dementia.  It was lovely to see him again this week with his memory restored.

Maybe I haven’t made myself clear. I don’t want 20 yard wide fairway setups. I like generous fairways, which is why I love my own golf club. But when you consistently miss those wide fairways, you shouldn’t be able to get your club on the back of the ball almost every time as Bryson’s luck in the natives gave him. The native areas were contrived, featuring 75 different plant species, many not native to the area. For the record, I was riveted by this tournament. I loved it. I might even have been converted to being a Bryson fan.  But I don’t expect a US OPEN winner to hit only 5 of 14 fairways off the tee in the final round, especially on a course with these green contours.

It’s not like he went catatonic and was firing birdies like he was at TPC Bushwood. He shot 71. With several less than 10% up and downs. It wasn’t about getting his club on the back of the ball. It was about correctly judging lie and his own ability and then making some truly remarkable pars. 8 and 18 come to mind.


It was a remarkable Open compared to many of the more reasonable USGA era. PH2, though very difficult, played great.

[Wayne_Kozun]

One thing that has been mostly overlooked in this thread is that Pinehurst was very brown for an American major tournament site.  In many ways it was the anti-Augusta.  It seems that they aren't bothered by having brown and even bare spots in areas of the course, and not just native areas, even parts of the fairways and green complexes. 


And not a water hazard to be seen.

[Ben Sims]

One thing that has been mostly overlooked in this thread is that Pinehurst was very brown for an American major tournament site.  In many ways it was the anti-Augusta.  It seems that they aren't bothered by having brown and even bare spots in areas of the course, and not just native areas, even parts of the fairways and green complexes. 


And not a water hazard to be seen.

How quickly we forgot the fairways and green surrounds at Chambers. That Open got pilloried for poor traffic flow and some poa/fescue rolling smoothness issues. But the USGA was quite down with brown that week too. The social media reactions then were distinctly different than those for PH2’s color this week.


Which is to say, maybe the tide is turning a bit?

[Wayne_Kozun]

Good point, but the greens at Chambers Bay look patchy and bumpy.  Here is the final round on YouTube https://youtu.be/dSWHn9Hp80M?si=fCG746MSksuWaxjZ

[George Pazin]

Be careful judging the brownness or patchiness of a golf course from TV. The last two Opens at Oakmont appeared much greener on TV than in person. Even in my little t shirt business, I have learned that colors from photos often don't represent how things look in real life.


My only real question about #2 is, how roly poly rumpled are the fairways? That's a big part of why I prefer watching even the Troons of the world to some American greats. I do realize that TV also flattens contours, so for those who've had the pleasure, what are the fairway contours like?

[Tommy Williamsen]

My only real question about #2 is, how roly poly rumpled are the fairways? That's a big part of why I prefer watching even the Troons of the world to some American greats. I do realize that TV also flattens contours, so for those who've had the pleasure, what are the fairway contours like?

Pinehurst does not have the uneven lies that most links courses have.

[George Pazin]

My only real question about #2 is, how roly poly rumpled are the fairways? That's a big part of why I prefer watching even the Troons of the world to some American greats. I do realize that TV also flattens contours, so for those who've had the pleasure, what are the fairway contours like?

Pinehurst does not have the uneven lies that most links courses have.

Oh well, I'll keep dreaming about Rye.

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