"The more you play it, the more it scares you"

[Adam G]

This great quote is from Geoff Ogilvy in the new Fried Egg video on Pinehurst No. 2.


This got me thinking: What are other examples of courses or holes that get in the player's head and despite lots of benefits to local knowledge actually become harder with repeated play?


I'll give two examples from New England.


First, Myopia Hunt Club. Some of the greens are so severely sloped and difficult (and kept at such high green speeds) that it gets in your head. I'm thinking of the fourth, sixth, eleventh, and sixteenth holes in particular. There are certain places you know you absolutely cannot miss even by a yard (my caddie told me "I'd rather be forty feet that way than five the other way"). I've only played it once, but those greens live rent free in my head and I'm sure that next time I play it my knowledge of the severity will accentuate my misses the other direction.


Second, the fifth hole "Shipwreck" at Boston Golf Club. It's an uphill, 300 yard par 4 that bends around a quarry on the right to a narrow bowling alley of a green oriented along the line of play behind the quarry that falls off to fairway on the left and narrow, trench-like bunkers on the right from which it is difficult to keep a ball on the green. Almost every birdie I have seen on that hole is from someone playing the course for the first time and swinging freely and without fear because they did not know the severity of the green complex and consequence for going right. Those who have played the hole over and over again almost always miss left -- and often significantly so -- because the penalty for going right lives in your head. It reminds me of Hogan's quote about the 11th at Augusta "if I am on the green you will know I pulled it" -- but this is with a short wedge shot or even half wedge. Fortunately, missing left typically means putting up the slope to the hole, so there is a path Hanse left to a straightforward par. But a birdie requires a fearless, exacting shot.


What are the best other examples of holes where knowing the hole should in theory be beneficial but in practice it can get in your head and make the course or hole scarier and more difficult?

[Michael Felton]

I think any hole where there is trouble that you can't see would work - there are a few times I've hit shots that wound up very close to the trouble, which meant I had a good view up the green. But if I knew what was there I never would have hit it there in the first place. I can't think of any specific examples. It doesn't really tend to come up much anymore now that I can check google earth for the layout before I go play.

[Ira Fishman]

I would put both Mid Pines 4 and 5 in this category. On 4, I know that you don’t want to be right and be blocked by Jay’s tree so my tendency is to pull it left. On 5, I know that on the second shot the fairway slopes harder toward the pond than it looks so my tendency is to block it right.


For long hitters, none of this really matters, but it does for me.

[Tom_Doak]

The OP used to be 100% true of The Old Course at St. Andrews.  The more you got to know all of its contours, and all of the bunkers in weird places, the less you were able to make a confident swing.  It's probably still true for some holes like 12, 13, and 14.  But nowadays a lot of players just go over most of those hazards.

[Joel_Stewart]

Prairie Dunes. Under almost any condition, its going to be hard.

[Pete_Pittock]

Bandon Trails #14.  Munch's "Scream" brought to my pastime.

[Kevin_Reilly]

I had a horrific bad streak off the tee on #2 at SFGC.  Left, left, left until the cows came home.  When I corrected that, it was block right, block right, block right.


Otherwise easy hole...just not for me.

[Jason Topp]

Great recognition for our own Craig Disher!

[Michael Morandi]

Every time  that I play with a guest who pulls off a difficult shot, I say you don’t know how good a shot that you hit. Knowledge can be a dangerous thing

[David_Tepper]

#2 at Royal Dornoch (the well-known 160 yard par-4 ) certainly fits the bill. After taking 3 or 4 shots to get out of the fronting bunkers or ping-ponging the ball back and forth across the green a few times, many a seasoned member hits a 125-130 yard club to lay up short of the green, chips or putts on, two putts for a 4 and moves on to the 3rd tee.

[Thomas Dai]

#2 at Royal Dornoch (the well-known 160 yard par-4 ) certainly fits the bill. After taking 3 or 4 shots to get out of the fronting bunkers or ping-ponging the ball back and forth across the green a few times, many a seasoned member hits a 125-130 yard club to lay up short of the green, chips or putts on, two putts for a 4 and moves on to the 3rd tee.

Good call.
Atb

[Mark Pearce]

#2 at Royal Dornoch (the well-known 160 yard par-4 ) certainly fits the bill. After taking 3 or 4 shots to get out of the fronting bunkers or ping-ponging the ball back and forth across the green a few times, many a seasoned member hits a 125-130 yard club to lay up short of the green, chips or putts on, two putts for a 4 and moves on to the 3rd tee.

I remember standing on that tee with a 6 iron in an invitation day many years ago and Stan Dodd, my host, took it away from me and gave me an 8 iron.  A chip and a putt later I had the par that my practice rounds hadn't produced.

[David_Tepper]

Mark -

You could almost say the same thing about #6 at Royal Dornoch. Missing that green left, right or long is also trouble.


DT

[Tim Martin]

Despite hundreds of plays over forty years 18 at Yale falls into this category for me.

[Peter Sayegh]

Could not disagree enough regarding Geoff Ogilviy's statement about #2.
#2 scared (the hell out of) me the first time around.
I've never felt it got "scarier" on any subsequent visit.

This got me thinking: What are other examples of courses or holes that get in the player's head and despite lots of benefits to local knowledge actually become harder with repeated play?


What are the best other examples of holes where knowing the hole should in theory be beneficial but in practice it can get in your head and make the course or hole scarier and more difficult?

Any hole or course one plays consistently poorly.
Previous posts highlight that.

[Ira Fishman]

Another one from the Sandhills: Pine Needles 5. You know that being above the hole risks putting off the green (and maybe into a bunker), but judging the uphill putt is no day at the beach. It is a challenge to pick the right club and make a confident swing.

[Tim Martin]

Another one from the Sandhills: Pine Needles 5. You know that being above the hole risks putting off the green (and maybe into a bunker), but judging the uphill putt is no day at the beach. It is a challenge to pick the right club and make a confident swing.

Ira-That’s a good one. Pine Needles has a terrific set of greens and for me the most confounding among the three Ross courses in Southern Pines. This is open to debate but I had a member tell me he thought they were the closest to # 2 of all the Ross courses in the Sandhills.

[J_ Crisham]

Butler National
     Every bad swing just add 2 strokes. It's a shame we will never see a US Open here. Defending par would be a piece of cake with just a hint of rough. Back in the day the cutlines at The Western Open were typically at level par or higher.

[Peter Bowman]

What are the best other examples of holes where knowing the hole should in theory be beneficial but in practice it can get in your head and make the course or hole scarier and more difficult?

2nd hole at Hooper hands down.  Prior to cutting the trees it was far more daunting.  OB road to the right. Heavy tree lined rough to the left. Crowned fairway landing area for long hitters that kick the bal into trouble.  Laying up with a hybrid off the tee puts you in a safe zone for your tee shot, but you still have another 200 yd hybrid to hit and equal risk of OB to the right on the approach. 

Now that trees have been removed, we have some forgiving waste areas to avoid OB more but the ball may roll through them, making it harder for some than it used to be

[Phil Young]

15th hole at Bethpage Black.

[Sean_A]

Mark -

You could almost say the same thing about #6 at Royal Dornoch. Missing that green left, right or long is also trouble.


DT

For sure, but 6 looks dangerous. 2 looks rather innocent until one knows better.

Ciao

[Tal Oz]

Thanks for starting this thread Adam! I've been wanting to start one like this for years but got lazy. You're absolutely right about #5 at BGC, the first time I played it I hit the green from the waste area on the right. Last week you saw me shank a wedge from 70y in the ideal spot in the fairway.

#12 at Rustic Canyon always comes to mind due to the subtle downhill nature of the hole. That little 3/4 wedge causes more chunks than any other I see. Coupled with a green that runs away from you, especially that back shelf, it leads to indecision from the guy who's played there a ton instead of the newbie. It looks so wide open and benign until you get bit. I've found my strategy on this hole get more and more safe as time goes on.

https://imgur.com/a/nanVYAe



Michael Felton's point about trouble you can't see is good! Greens that run away from the player will scare the experienced golfer.

[Jeff Schley]

Royal St. George's for me. Anyone that has played there realizes there are some very odd lines of play. Being ignorant my first time I took advice of the member I was teeing off with playing foursomes. I still didn't have a good idea of where to go, the next round knowing I had to play my own ball the whole time in wind I had no confidence. Turns out my no confidence was well founded, as I shot over 100 and gained a huge amount of respect for when The Open is played there.

[Michael Felton]

Royal St. George's for me. Anyone that has played there realizes there are some very odd lines of play. Being ignorant my first time I took advice of the member I was teeing off with playing foursomes. I still didn't have a good idea of where to go, the next round knowing I had to play my own ball the whole time in wind I had no confidence. Turns out my no confidence was well founded, as I shot over 100 and gained a huge amount of respect for when The Open is played there.

I don't think anyone could possibly know what the line is on 7 and 13 (from the left tee anyway) without guidance. Both holes you stand on the tee and can't see anything but Dunes. 7 in particular could go virtually anywhere.


5 though is a perfect example of this. The line is as close as you dare to the left bunkers, but you can't go in them or you'll lose a shot. First time you play it you don't know how bad they are so you bunt one down there and you're fine. Then you realize just how dead you are down there and so the next time you play, you hit it 20 yards further right and you're down the hill further away and blind. Not a good combination.


Then you've got a hole like 4, where you stand on the tee and there's a natural looking line to hit it on. Problem is if you hit it there you'll be left rough or bunkers. The actual place you want to hit it is about 40 yards right of where it feels like you should.

[Ryan Taylor]

This great quote is from Geoff Ogilvy in the new Fried Egg video on Pinehurst No. 2.


This got me thinking: What are other examples of courses or holes that get in the player's head and despite lots of benefits to local knowledge actually become harder with repeated play?


I'll give two examples from New England.


First, Myopia Hunt Club. Some of the greens are so severely sloped and difficult (and kept at such high green speeds) that it gets in your head. I'm thinking of the fourth, sixth, eleventh, and sixteenth holes in particular. There are certain places you know you absolutely cannot miss even by a yard (my caddie told me "I'd rather be forty feet that way than five the other way"). I've only played it once, but those greens live rent free in my head and I'm sure that next time I play it my knowledge of the severity will accentuate my misses the other direction.


Second, the fifth hole "Shipwreck" at Boston Golf Club. It's an uphill, 300 yard par 4 that bends around a quarry on the right to a narrow bowling alley of a green oriented along the line of play behind the quarry that falls off to fairway on the left and narrow, trench-like bunkers on the right from which it is difficult to keep a ball on the green. Almost every birdie I have seen on that hole is from someone playing the course for the first time and swinging freely and without fear because they did not know the severity of the green complex and consequence for going right. Those who have played the hole over and over again almost always miss left -- and often significantly so -- because the penalty for going right lives in your head. It reminds me of Hogan's quote about the 11th at Augusta "if I am on the green you will know I pulled it" -- but this is with a short wedge shot or even half wedge. Fortunately, missing left typically means putting up the slope to the hole, so there is a path Hanse left to a straightforward par. But a birdie requires a fearless, exacting shot.


What are the best other examples of holes where knowing the hole should in theory be beneficial but in practice it can get in your head and make the course or hole scarier and more difficult?

#8 at Crystal Downs comes to mind after a recent double bogey from the fairway. No matter the angle of approach, the green requires a solid struck iron shot with spin and carry in order to hold the green. The task is fairly straight forward from the fairway but is made difficult by the fact that there really isn't a bailout and this repeat player may have scar tissue from previous misses right and left.