Golf Originals - Tom Doaks Spectacular Golfing Mind

[Mike Wagner]

Peter S:


I don't think we've ever met, and you might want to ask some of the people who have met me, what sort of person I am, instead of focusing on a throwaway comment in an interview.


I've spent COUNTLESS hours online on Golf Club Atlas over the past 25 years. 


I met my wife at right about the same time, and in hindsight, I should have spent a lot more time with her and a lot less time here.  [And each and every one of you might want to think about that, in your own lives.]  The only reason I'm here is because I am fairly well obsessed with what I do and trying to get better, and I prefer to interact with hobbyists who might say something interesting or new, than with fellow professionals who are practical and set in their ways.  But, for every comment that makes me think, there are a lot that do not, so in the sum of things it has probably been a giant waste of my time, unless there was some value to others in my having answered 100,000 questions from across the board.


I will happily stand by the comment that even people who are interested in golf architecture really don't understand the nature of what designers do, day in and day out.  I've been complimented hundreds of times on what a genius I must be to perfect the design of a course in my mind before we have built anything.  The reality is that I've built a talented team over the years, and it takes the efforts of several of them over a period of 6-12 months to create the finished product, refining it all the way.  My job is to get them started in the right direction, and to edit their contributions to achieve what I think is the best possible outcome.  I'm not underrating the significance of that, but that is far different from the cliche compliment.  That was the point of my response to Michael's question.  And, incidentally, Bill Coore says the exact same thing.

Thank you for participating on here for as long as you have, and hopefully continue to do. 


Comparisons to Mackenzie and any other great architect are absolutely fair .. as you say, we do it in not only golf, but just about every other profession.


Thanks for being exactly who you are and creating with your team wonderful works of art we get to enjoy. I've been blessed to play many of them and there's nothing like 'em. Keep 'em coming!

[Tom_Doak]

P.S. I admire that your posts/responses are grammatically sound.

I don't know that I've ever mentioned it, but one of the reasons I have such strong opinions about golf writing [and try hard to be grammatically sound and spell everything correctly, until typing on the iPhone ruined it for me] is that my mom had a degree in Journalism.  She had higher standards than any golf magazine that ever existed.


I've been meaning to write the University of Missouri to ask how many women got a Journalism degree in 1940.  It dawned on me a couple of years ago when I was back there visiting family, that it wasn't many.

[archie_struthers]

 


Have had the pleasure of playing with Tom a few times. Really enjoyed it!  His work speaks for itself

[Tim_Weiman]

P.S. I admire that your posts/responses are grammatically sound.

I don't know that I've ever mentioned it, but one of the reasons I have such strong opinions about golf writing [and try hard to be grammatically sound and spell everything correctly, until typing on the iPhone ruined it for me] is that my mom had a degree in Journalism.  She had higher standards than any golf magazine that ever existed.


I've been meaning to write the University of Missouri to ask how many women got a Journalism degree in 1940.  It dawned on me a couple of years ago when I was back there visiting family, that it wasn't many.

Tom,


You mentioned it to me like 25 years ago!


My own opinion is that golf architecture writing isn’t easy and most of us don’t do it very well. IMO your style is different than others. What stands out is your ability to succinctly identify and articulate what is noteworthy about a golf course. I’d say that is based on a combination of two things: 1) travel and widespread exposure to the golf architecture art form and 2) writing skill. Both are important.


There is one thing I am curious about: I think you also once said you weren’t a fan of Dan Jenkin’s writing in the 1966 Sports Illustrated book about America’s best golf holes.


Do I remember this correctly and if so, what was it that you didn’t like?


Tim


P.S. I loved Jenkin’s description of Pine Valley which begins with “Every man who has ever waggled a wedge with serious intent knows about Pine Valley”.

[Peter Sayegh]

P.S. I admire that your posts/responses are grammatically sound.

I don't know that I've ever mentioned it, but one of the reasons I have such strong opinions about golf writing [and try hard to be grammatically sound and spell everything correctly, until typing on the iPhone ruined it for me] is that my mom had a degree in Journalism.  She had higher standards...

I can't recall the first time I heard you mention her influence on your writing (is it in the preface of one of your books or a post here many years ago?) but it I've never forgotten it.

Details matter.

[BCrosby]

My jaw hit the floor when Tom mentioned, at the very end of the interview, about golf courses being an emotional safe space for men. I've thought about that comment daily ever since.

I had a similar reaction. A fascinating observation that seems obvious in hindsight. Tom is on the money.


Bob

[Ira Fishman]

P.S. I admire that your posts/responses are grammatically sound.

I don't know that I've ever mentioned it, but one of the reasons I have such strong opinions about golf writing [and try hard to be grammatically sound and spell everything correctly, until typing on the iPhone ruined it for me] is that my mom had a degree in Journalism.  She had higher standards...

I can't recall the first time I heard you mention her influence on your writing (is it in the preface of one of your books or a post here many years ago?) but it I've never forgotten it.

Details matter.

One of the reasons I enjoy the CG is the quality of the writing. A particular favorite:


"The only course in America named after its patrons, Old White..."

[Will Thrasher]

I found the video to be informative and a great watch. I didn't take Tom's comments as offensive in the least, and his response here is spot on. I for one (longtime lurker for the most part) have been tremendously appreciative of the insight Tom has shared in this forum over the years. I give him tremendous kudos for recognizing this forum as a useful (though imperfect) tool to gain insight from the more average golf enthusiast especially when he has sift through the chaff to get to the wheat so to speak.

[Tommy Williamsen]

P.S. I admire that your posts/responses are grammatically sound.

I don't know that I've ever mentioned it, but one of the reasons I have such strong opinions about golf writing [and try hard to be grammatically sound and spell everything correctly, until typing on the iPhone ruined it for me] is that my mom had a degree in Journalism.  She had higher standards than any golf magazine that ever existed.


I've been meaning to write the University of Missouri to ask how many women got a Journalism degree in 1940.  It dawned on me a couple of years ago when I was back there visiting family, that it wasn't many.

I grew up in a household where correct grammar was fundamental. My Dad constantly corrected me. I am glad he did, but now I silently correct others’ grammatical mistakes. It makes me nuts when journalists or announcers don't know basic grammar.

[Mark Smolens]

My participation on this site was the direct result of Mr. Doak's presence herein -- I saw a post on Geoff Shackelford's old blog about some kind of dispute on this golf architecture blog, hit the link, and spent the next several hours wandering around in awe of the fact that this DG existed. I saw the names of some pretty famous architects, including Mr. Doak, but assumed that these were pen names for internet boobs like me. I emailed Ran and asked if the "Tom Doak" who posted regularly was the Tom Doak who designed the incredibly crazy greens at Lost Dunes that I had recently played. . . and he of course responded that the names on the site were real and invited me to join in the fun. For that grace I will be forever grateful, not only for the on-line education, but for the folks in this DG that I have met over the years (including the aforementioned Mr. Doak who signed my CG at the Mashie he hosted at Lost Dunes).


Many years later I can certainly concede that Tom Doak, Jeff Brauer and the like (please forgive me for not generating an exhaustive list here, you know who you are, and I'm still in an anesthetically-induced haze after this morning's colonoscopy) have forgotten more about golf course architecture in the last 15 seconds than I will ever know. But without people like me/us, people who love to play the silly game, Tom and Jeff would be out of jobs. No need for golf course architects if there's no one to play on their courses. I, speaking for myself, greatly appreciate the willingness of those who know to impart their knowledge--with wit, wisdom, and sometimes sarcasm--to those interested i learning.

[Peter Sayegh]

P.S. I admire that your posts/responses are grammatically sound.

I don't know that I've ever mentioned it, but one of the reasons I have such strong opinions about golf writing [and try hard to be grammatically sound and spell everything correctly, until typing on the iPhone ruined it for me] is that my mom had a degree in Journalism.  She had higher standards...

I can't recall the first time I heard you mention her influence on your writing (is it in the preface of one of your books or a post here many years ago?) but it I've never forgotten it.

Details matter.

One of the reasons I enjoy the CG is the quality of the writing. A particular favorite:


"The only course in America named after its patrons, Old White..."

Ira, that's now my favorite post.
Thanks.

[Anthony Butler]

Two things I'm reminded of when watching this video:

My primary thought playing with Tom Doak at ______ ____ (name of course retracted) and hearing his commentary on what he'd done with that course and others of his I'd played was "This guy is like the Coen Brothers in one person... he has complete understanding of what has gone before him in his field - and of what it takes to create something to the standard of the things he's  studied and admired for most of his life."

The other was the great Bob Dylan quote "All artists copy, great artists steal."

[Anthony Butler]

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[John Handley]

Great interview with Tom. What I appreciate about him is his honesty, which is evident on this site. I am a fan of his golf courses and think he will go down as one of the all-time greats. But, as he said, let's check back in 100 years.


In reading some of his books as well, what I also appreciate about Tom, is that he took the time and dedication to personally visit many of the top golf courses around the world. Talk about throwing yourself fully into the craft. So not only to go along with his obvious talent & creativity, Tom has built himself a great team that he allows to do the work and engage in the creative process. As a management executive, I know that you are only as good as the team around you.


I have experienced many of the top golf courses in Scotland and Ireland and have been studying the great courses of England for the past year and a half. Fortunately, I am going twice this year to play 15 of the best ones. By studying the nuances of these highly respected courses and I truly appreciate the courses I play in the US. So not to ramble on, but the experience and studying of the great golf courses around the world is another example of what I think separates Tom from many of his peers.