Can you hate too many trees and love ANGC? How about the hard and hilly walk?

[Michael Morandi]

The drones ESPN is using to cover the Masters show a course framed by a million trees. Some drone shots make it even difficult to find the outline of the hole. Over the years I’ve read countless post on GCA about the ideal golf terrain, which usually trends toward treeless, flat and sandy soil. Augusta doesn’t fit this formula and yet it gains favor here. A one-off exception?

[Kalen Braley]

Looking at aerials like this, it would seem they could use a few chain saws at ANGC.. 

[Michael Morandi]

Looking at aerials like this, it would seem they could use a few chain saws at ANGC.. 
it was built on a nursery, after all

[Charlie Goerges]

There are too many trees now, for sure. 1930-something looks a bit bare though. Somewhere in between is better. The site would be naturally forested without human intervention, so a nod to that nature is worthwhile in my book.

[David Kelly]

ANGC is starting to look like Innisbrook North.

[Tim Martin]

Despite the increased volume of trees since the 1930’s ANGC averages in excess of fifty yards of fairway width which is among the most generous on tour. The perspective afforded by drone photography is way different than at ground level.

[Jim_Coleman]

   The answer to the question posed is no. The tree haters can’t pretend to like Augusta.

[Rob Marshall]

Was just poised to ask the same question after watching the drone shot. Looks like way too many trees from the air but I’ve never been on site. Other observation is that it seems like most courses are trying to remove all their pines and that’s pretty all I see on TV.

[Jason Thurman]

Can anyone remind us why we're supposed to hate trees?


There are reasons, for sure. I just think a lot of people have gotten really good at saying "Trees? Bad!!!" and don't know why they're saying it...


And I don't think Augusta shows those core symptoms of being a course that needs trees removed.

[Charlie Goerges]

Can anyone remind us why we're supposed to hate trees?

As someone who likes trees, here are the arguments I hear:


Agronomic:
-Trees can interfere with air circulation
-Trees can compete with turf
-Trees can block sunlight


To my mind, ANGC probably has these well in-hand, so they're not a problem there.


Design
-Trees can give a hemmed-in feeling in play that reduces some people's enjoyment
-Trees interrupt the view
-Trees aren't fun to play from


To me, you mileage may vary on any of these. For me, good uses of trees are good and bad uses of trees are bad. Simple

[Ally Mcintosh]

Can anyone remind us why we're supposed to hate trees?


There are reasons, for sure. I just think a lot of people have gotten really good at saying "Trees? Bad!!!" and don't know why they're saying it...

Because it’s one of the “seven rules of GCA” of course!:


1. Trees are bad
2. Water is bad
3. Width is good
4. Wild contours are good
5. Lots of short grass, particularly around greens
6. Sand needs to occur in a natural looking fashion. If it does, the more the better.
7. Strategy, strategy, strategy (whatever that means)


No need to know more. If you can repeatedly give lip service to all of those rules in every conversation you have about golf courses, then you are a modern day architecture expert.

[Tom_Doak]

For years, Augusta has been the closest thing in the top 100 listings to an "unworkable" course, although of course it's not, because everyone in The Masters walks.  [Although Tiger has trouble walking it.]


The most recent rankings loosened the rules on that.

[mike_malone]

Many of the holes have loads of open space at the green.

[Joe_Tucholski]

I'm seeing the course for the first time in person this week.  The only area I felt negatively about the trees is 18.  While there are trees I don't eally feel like the density of the trees is a big problem in most areas that are in play.  That being said I'm not against trees when courses are built in forested areas as long as they are low enough density to find and play your ball.

[jeffwarne]

Can anyone remind us why we're supposed to hate trees?


There are reasons, for sure. I just think a lot of people have gotten really good at saying "Trees? Bad!!!" and don't know why they're saying it...


And I don't think Augusta shows those core symptoms of being a course that needs trees removed.

There are many, many trees at Augusta that could go, if nothing else for spectators visibility, but the 1930's version is certainly not the answer.
The trees play key strategic roles on every par 5, as well as many other holes, they've gotten a bit excessive with the planting.
The area behind 4 green with hedges and bamboo is (lost ball) particularly close to play and so odd/egregious-especially on a 230 plus par 3.
There are some beautiful trees there on 4 that would make a wonderful backdrop, but they are obscured by all the hedges/bamboo that previously formed the border with Berkmanns Road, but now simply separate 4 green form 5 tee many, many yards away.
Perhaps there is some infrastructure hidden in there.
The same is true of large bushy trees short and right of 14 and the mess that is short left on18 fairway-often in play when a ball hits a tight overhanging limb.

[Kalen Braley]

Jeff,

Just took a look on Google Earth and Bing Maps, no infrastructure behind there...for now.

But I would certainly agree the thick stuff seems out of place/unnecessary given that both the Members and Masters tees for 5 are 50 yards  (Google earth measurement) beyond the back of 4 green.

[Cliff Hamm]

I never remember so many tee shots going in amongst the trees. Is that just me or is it so?

[Kalen Braley]

If Dr, MacK came back and saw #7, its hard to imagine him not saying something like  "what in the bloody hell did you do to this hole"?

[Joe_Tucholski]

The drones ESPN is using to cover the Masters show a course framed by a million trees. Some drone shots make it even difficult to find the outline of the hole. Over the years I’ve read countless post on GCA about the ideal golf terrain, which usually trends toward treeless, flat and sandy soil. Augusta doesn’t fit this formula and yet it gains favor here. A one-off exception?

The other thing that is clear is the course is unlike any other.  It exists for 1 week a year.  Is it even really a members course.  How often are the local members playing?  The infrastructure built in and the mounds for viewing is really incredible.  So trying rto assess it like other courses isn't a good comparison.  It's definitely the best tournament course I've ever seen.


I also don't feel like it's too hilly. 


The minor critique I have is the number of walk backs to tournament tees.

[Edward Glidewell]

The minor critique I have is the number of walk backs to tournament tees.

I think that's really a critique of golf's governing bodies for letting distance get out of control, though. The longer walk backs are mainly due to new tees built to add distance over the past couple of decades.

[Alan FitzGerald CGCS MG]

When I was there this week and taking it all in, I thought about how antithetical the place is to what most (especially here) consider classic (modern (?)) design/aesthetic - and I LOVED it....


I'm a superintendent and I don't hate trees (yup I just said that), provided of course they are not detrimental to turf health or the design integrity. Trees can have a part of a golf course and at no point did I think that they were an issue there - and even add to it.


The elevation still amazes me - what's wrong with a lot of up and down and deep run offs around greens?


The blind shots are there but local knowledge negates them as it is still fair beyond them.


The long walks to the back back tees? its not an issue for most people as they're not back there anyway and so what? Yes it's fun to walk right onto the next tee but if going on a little walk improves the hole, then why not? 


The lack of fine fescue is - at this point - a huge bonus for me - I love the stuff but it is soooo overdone these days. I love the lack of frilly bunkers and fine turf dropping into the bunkers (which I didn't really realize until this trip is somewhat linksy...).


The deep roundy clean edged bunkers - they work there.


I never understood the Masters or ANGC until after my first visit 6-7 years ago. It's amazing. It stands on its own. The perfectionism of everything is something to behold but it still would be amazing if it was maintained at a "normal" level. It is easy to bash it for what it is but it is more than that and refreshing that it still does what it does best and doesn't adhere to trends or what is right at the time (just as PV does).

[Mike Hendren]

Fitz, you are my new hero.  There are very few ANGC apologists in the treehouse.  Welcome.


Bogey

[Peter Sayegh]

Can anyone remind us why we're supposed to hate trees?


There are reasons, for sure. I just think a lot of people have gotten really good at saying "Trees? Bad!!!" and don't know why they're saying it...

Because it’s one of the “seven rules of GCA” of course!:


1. Trees are bad
2. Water is bad
3. Width is good
4. Wild contours are good
5. Lots of short grass, particularly around greens
6. Sand needs to occur in a natural looking fashion. If it does, the more the better.
7. Strategy, strategy, strategy (whatever that means)


No need to know more. If you can repeatedly give lip service to all of those rules in every conversation you have about golf courses, then you are a modern day architecture expert.

Duck and cover, Ally (if you're still allowed on this site after that post). Perfectly stated.

For those who have never played AN (myself included), I walked it two rounds at the inagural Women's Am.

Hillier and more open than any view TV affords.

[archie_struthers]

 




I've been there a few times and the hills are really much steeper than it appears on the telly.  At my age I'm sure the walk up 18 after playing would be quite the exercise. Tiger played so well but you could see he just got tired. It really is a tour de force for Scheffler at this point as he answered more questions about his talent and heart.


How could you not like this tournament ?  As my friend Alan pointed out there are huge corridors for the wind to blow thru the property. The health isn't an issue and it's the ultimate tournament for spectators to enjoy. Pretty well done kudos to Augusta National for continuing a great tradition for so long ....well played

[Bob Montle]

My favorite architect, MacKenzie, on trees:



 "On an inland course, the only way, except at enormous expense of providing hazards as high as sand dunes, is by the use of trees in groups," MacKenzie wrote. "Trees make an excellent corner for a dog-leg. Firs, pines, cypress, sil- ver birch and California oak make beautiful backgrounds for greens."
In 1933,


[size=78%]Alternative groupings of trees, planted irregularly, create most fascinating golf and give players the opportunity of showing their skill and judgment in slicing, pulling round, or attempting to loft over them.[/size]