[Steve_Roths]

As is anyone hyped to go see the Karoo course now that we have seen a handful of pictures of the final product.


I think the pain point I expressed a while back was overabundance of exposed sand.


I worry this will be a one time visit and move on for most. 

Curious how the second regulation length course comes out.

[Tim_Weiman]

Steve,


Many times over the years we have debated the value of photography to evaluate a golf course absent an actual site visit. All things considered, a site visit is probably better than relying on photography, including drone photography.


That said, I guess I do share your reaction to the amount of exposed sand at Cabot Citrus as displayed by photographs. Just not my favorite look.

[Jay Mickle]

There is a lot more room than is visible from the tee, not unlike Mike Strantz courses. You may like it or you may hate it but you will not forget it.

[Edward Glidewell]

I still don't really understand why they blew up Pine Barrens -- admittedly it's only photos, which obviously is not at all the same as being there in person, but I don't think the new course looks as good/interesting as Pine Barrens.

[Michael George]

Anyone else seeing the same thing in a lot of new designs by younger architects.   They seem to overdo things like sand and boldness, likely to get noticed.  Subtlety seems to be lost. 

While you may not forget it, you will also lose interest in it. 

[Matt Kardash]

Just watched the entire 18 being played on the Grant Horvat Yotube channel. Would this be considered a maximalist course? There is A LOT going on. Without having played it, I wonder ifthey may have overdid it with the split fairways, crazy greens, 1000 bunkers, etc.

[Stewart Abramson]

There is a lot more room than is visible from the tee, not unlike Mike Strantz courses. You may like it or you may hate it but you will not forget it.

This is spot on. ^


There is plenty of room at Karoo.  There are generous fairways and very little rough so the sand in many places is partially in lieu of rough. I only had to play out of sand a couple times.


Someone who doesn't like Karoo because there's "too much exposed sand",  probably doesn't like Tobacco Road, True Blue, Pinehurst #4, Ak Chin Southern Dunes, Streamsong Black and a few others. It's a look, but I don't think it's overdone or overly common.


I'm all for bold  whether it's by new or old architects.


Maybe the PR photos focus more on the sand than what is actually there as one plays a round in order to advertise the dramatic. I've revisited my photos (linked below) and the amount of sand doesn't freak me out. I understand it's not to everyone's taste, but that's okay.


https://www.flickr.com/gp/golfcoursepix/8UuXQT5oh5.  Cabot Citrus Karoo pix

[Tim_Weiman]

Anyone else seeing the same thing in a lot of new designs by younger architects.   They seem to overdo things like sand and boldness, likely to get noticed.  Subtlety seems to be lost. 

While you may not forget it, you will also lose interest in it.

Michael,


I don’t know if it is about younger vs old architects. Whistling Straights, some might remember, was initially advertised as Pete Dye’s tribute to Ballybunion but IMO it had far more bunkers, including bunkers out of play, than either of the two  Ballybunion courses.


Excessive bunkers or exposed sand is just a look, something some may enjoy and others don’t.


In fairness, while I wasn’t thrilled with the aesthetics, I did enjoy playing Whistling Straights.

[Steve Lang]

 


Would think that being compared to Strantz and Dye is not too bad of company... controversy or not. 

[Jason Thurman]

Exposed sand has a tendency to turn into "sandy scrub with miscellaneous vegetation" over time. I tend to like when a course features "rough" that looks like the typical "broken ground" of its native geographical location. The courses around Pinehurst, for example. Let's see how all that exposed sand looks in two years.


If I could get anyone at Cabot Citrus to respond to my tee time request, I'd love to give a firsthand perspective. I hope it's awesome and also that it holds somewhere in the ballpark of its current planned price point - as a guy who would love to escape the Midwest for some warm-weather springtime golf, I've found a real lack of architecturally interesting and golf-centric options in the South. There are a few spots tied to arm-and-a-leg priced resorts, sure. But looking for a golf-focused trip that doesn't break the bank, as soon as I got past Southern Pines and Old Waverly it felt like I was pretty quickly staring at the RTJ Trail. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

[Wayne_Kozun]

I hope it's awesome and also that it holds somewhere in the ballpark of its current planned price point - as a guy who would love to escape the Midwest for some warm-weather springtime golf, I've found a real lack of architecturally interesting and golf-centric options in the South. There are a few spots tied to arm-and-a-leg priced resorts, sure. But looking for a golf-focused trip that doesn't break the bank, as soon as I got past Southern Pines and Old Waverly it felt like I was pretty quickly staring at the RTJ Trail. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

What do you mean by "current planned price point".  Or do you mean the current price point, which I think is about $160? 
I would guess that Cabot Citrus will be competing with Streamsong and will have a similar price point once it is fully up and running.  So around $300 for resort guests and $400 for non-guests, inflation adjusted for when the course is fully open.

[Pierre_C]

I agree with you Wayne. The Tampa area will invariably continue to be a winter golf destination, especially for Northerners traveling below the Mason-Dixon. Streamsong & Citrus Farm are just over a 2 hour drive from each other, so an easy few days for anyone wanting to maximize a winter golf trip.       


Streamsong has roughly 228 rooms & suites.  I'm curious how many cottages/ rooms will be available at Citrus Farm.  It seems the demand for public golf destinations will continue to grow.


Steamsong's peak rate: guest $319 / non-guest $419.


I expect Citrus Farm's peak rate: guest rate $340 / non-guest $430.


https://youtu.be/GsgyRvGyioo?si=mlYdeu2i-btcvGQD. (drone video of Karoo)

[Wayne_Kozun]

Story from ScoreGolf on Cabot Citrus with a mention of GCA:  https://scoregolf.com/features/golf-travel/a-new-kind-of-cabot-floridas-reimagined-citrus-farms-is-an-awesome-multi-course-escape/

[David_Tepper]

The Golfer's Journal video on the transition from World Woods to Cabot Citrus:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCCbIRPd9Y0

[Paul Rudovsky]

Played Karoo, Squeeze, and Wedge earlier this week.  Had seen this thread before i got there and had similar impressions from other photos, but must say that biggest take away from my round was that the bunkering was not over done.  It of used to frame fairways which are quite generous. 


Greens are pretty wild but very putt-able and fair (so long as the grounds crew member who cuts the holes has not had too much to drink the night before).  Pines can be set is some really tough tough positions, but think that will be very rare.


Course was incredibly firm and fast, and that took some getting used to but I love that. 


Highly recommend it for a visit.  Did not have a chance to look at Roost which will not open for several months.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I played Karoo last week and found that it had plenty of room off the tee. There was a lot of sand, to be sure, but not nearly as much as I had anticipated seeing the pictures. The greens, however, are a different story. They are some of the largest and boldest greens this side of Landman. Sometimes a three-putt is good. One thing is for sure: you will remember the course.

[Tom_Doak]

One thing is for sure: you will remember the course.

Can you remember the individual holes clearly?  Can you remember the primary strategic features?  I only got a very quick tour one afternoon this spring [jumping around from one course to another at that], but my impression was that it was complicated enough that it would be hard for people to remember in detail, beyond the initial "wow". 

[Tommy Williamsen]

One thing is for sure: you will remember the course.

Can you remember the individual holes clearly?  Can you remember the primary strategic features?  I only got a very quick tour one afternoon this spring [jumping around from one course to another at that], but my impression was that it was complicated enough that it would be hard for people to remember in detail, beyond the initial "wow".

In recent years, I have had difficulty remembering individual holes. However, I do remember most of Karoo, but probably not in order. What stands out are all the center-line bunkers and alternate fairways, either on the first or second shot. There are almost too many choices to make on every hole. As I went through the card and my pictures, I did remember where I hit my shots on most of the holes. I think 15 was my favorite hole. We played it at about 240 yards and drove it up near the green, but the tee ball had to be precise.

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