[Mark Chaplin]

Ally I don’t know the answer to your question but my caddying jobs last year pretty much split 50:50 between British and overseas golfers, of the overseas visitors 80:20 were from the USA.


Many would be surprised how big the UK market is at the moment.

[Ian Andrew]

You can have both good golf, a beautiful coast, and a great time in Southwest England for reasonable prices. I love it in Devon and Cornwall. These are in-season prices. The courses also have twilight fees that are much cheaper.
                                Pounds.   Dollars
Saunton (both)            220       279
St Enodoc.                    150.       191
Burnham & Berrow.      150.       191
Royal North Devon       100.       127
Trevose.                     105.       134

Overseas memberships as Sauton and RND are inexpensive.

I've made that trip and would highly recommend it. If you are a foodie, as well as a golfer, this is the trip for you!

[Wayne_Kozun]

It would be interesting to see a chart, over time, of the ratio of visitors fees compared to a membership for a local person.  What would that be at these courses now?  As high as 50% (in that a visitor pays 50% for one round of what it would cost a local person to play all year).   And how would that compare to 20 years ago.

[Sean_A]

It would be interesting to see a chart, over time, of the ratio of visitors fees compared to a membership for a local person.  What would that be at these courses now?  As high as 50% (in that a visitor pays 50% for one round of what it would cost a local person to play all year).   And how would that compare to 20 years ago.

I think it’s closer to 3-5 visitor rounds per 1 year of local membership dues for most of the big guns. I think my club is about 10/11 to 1 and it’s midish top 100 GB&I….tons of very good clubs will be in this range.

Ciao

[Mike Worth]

Thanks for putting this together. It’s helpful.


For some reason I thought I paid a lot more for Macrihinish in 2022 than the 120 British pounds you’ve listed for 2024. But a quick review of my credit card statement shows I paid $105.32 US and the exchange rate was $1.17 equals 1 British pound pound.


This brings me to my next point – – my 2022 UK trip occurred in Aug-Sep 22 — a busy time in the UK. Notable for the Queen passing away on September 8 and then 2 weeks later then-Prime Minister Liz Truss introducing her infamous mini budget which caused the pound to crash to $1.06. I therefore demand, as an American tourist, that you bring back Liz Truss in time for this summer’s trip 

[Dan_Callahan]

A visitor is anyone who isn't a member of the club. I don't know about Ireland but in Scotland at a lot of clubs most visitors are Scottish/locals and therefore not from overseas.

Niall

Again, I was talking about the gap in greens fees. If you have a Golf Ireland card, your greens fees are half what an overseas visitor pays.

[Mark Pearce]

It's not overseas visitors. It's visitors generally. I am not aware of any clubs that have a specially high American rate 

I was talking about Ireland, and given that it's an island, I would consider pretty much all visitors as being "overseas." Wasn't limiting that to just Americans.

Someone from Cork visiting a course in Dublin is still a visitor.  In GB&I a "visitor" is someone who is not a member and not playing with a member (that'd be a guest).  Locals play local courses, too.

[Mark Pearce]

I therefore demand, as an American tourist, that you bring back Liz Truss in time for this summer’s trip 

Even with our recent electoral penchant for self-harm, that isn't happening.

[Brian Finn]

In GB&I a "visitor" is someone who is not a member and not playing with a member (that'd be a guest).  Locals play local courses, too.

This is not entirely accurate.  Quite a few courses have two categories of visitor.  I have several potential itineraries "in the works" and have seen some version of this in Scotland, England, and Ireland.  A few examples from Scotland:

Lundin (peak season):
150 visitor
120 UK resident (20% discount)

Panmure (peak season):
160 visitor
135 UK golf club member (16% discount)

Monifieth Medal (peak season):
125 visitor
95 Scottish golf club member (24% discount)

Montrose (peak season):
140 visitor
70 Scottish Golf Union member (50% discount)

Carnoustie, Arbroath, Scotscraig, Elie, and many others do still have just one visitor rate.

[Mark Pearce]

In GB&I a "visitor" is someone who is not a member and not playing with a member (that'd be a guest).  Locals play local courses, too.

This is not entirely accurate. 

It is entirely accurate.  The existence of different classes of visitor, all of whom are not members of the club and not playing with a member does not detract from the accuracy of the broader definition. 


But yes, some clubs do distinguish between classes of visitor.  Dumbarnie, for instance, has, I think, at least three different classes of Scottish resident, depending on how locally they live.  This is relatively new and still rare, I think.  But I suspect it may become more common.

[Brian Finn]

In GB&I a "visitor" is someone who is not a member and not playing with a member (that'd be a guest).  Locals play local courses, too.

This is not entirely accurate. 

It is entirely accurate.  The existence of different classes of visitor, all of whom are not members of the club and not playing with a member does not detract from the accuracy of the broader definition. 

But yes, some clubs do distinguish between classes of visitor.  Dumbarnie, for instance, has, I think, at least three different classes of Scottish resident, depending on how locally they live.  This is relatively new and still rare, I think.  But I suspect it may become more common.

That is fine, but I don't really care about semantics.  The point that others were trying to make earlier, and I was attempting to reinforce, is that not all visitors pay the same rate.  I should not have cited your post as inaccurate. 

[Sean_A]

In GB&I a "visitor" is someone who is not a member and not playing with a member (that'd be a guest).  Locals play local courses, too.

This is not entirely accurate.  Quite a few courses have two categories of visitor.  I have several potential itineraries "in the works" and have seen some version of this in Scotland, England, and Ireland.  A few examples from Scotland:

Lundin (peak season):
150 visitor
120 UK resident (20% discount)

Panmure (peak season):
160 visitor
135 UK golf club member (16% discount)

Monifieth Medal (peak season):
125 visitor
95 Scottish golf club member (24% discount)

Montrose (peak season):
140 visitor
70 Scottish Golf Union member (50% discount)

Carnoustie, Arbroath, Scotscraig, Elie, and many others do still have just one visitor rate.

I was at an English club recently which is considering adding a non UK fee for visitors. This would be the first in England that I encountered. The concept is spreading in Scotland.

Ciao

[Niall C]

But yes, some clubs do distinguish between classes of visitor.  Dumbarnie, for instance, has, I think, at least three different classes of Scottish resident, depending on how locally they live.  This is relatively new and still rare, I think.  But I suspect it may become more common.

Mark


It's not that new. I believe it was Kingsbarns that was the first to offer different rates for overseas golfers, UK golfers, Scottish golfers, Fife residents and indeed a separate rate for R&A members (from memory the R&A put up some of the money for the development but could have remembered that wrongly). That was back in c.2000. Interesting that it was an American developer (Mark Parsinen) who introduced it, no doubt better attuned to what visiting golfers from the US were willing to pay but aware that those rates would simply not be affordable/acceptable to the UK market.


Not sure if any other development/club followed suit until Parsinen did the same trick at Castle Stuart. Since then perhaps pay & play courses such Mach Dunes, Dumbarnie, Turnberry etc might have done the same but what I think is new in recent years is that clubs are now following this trend, enabled no doubt due to the relative strength of the dollar.


Niall

[David Jones]

In GB&I a "visitor" is someone who is not a member and not playing with a member (that'd be a guest).  Locals play local courses, too.

This is not entirely accurate.  Quite a few courses have two categories of visitor.  I have several potential itineraries "in the works" and have seen some version of this in Scotland, England, and Ireland.  A few examples from Scotland:

Lundin (peak season):
150 visitor
120 UK resident (20% discount)

Panmure (peak season):
160 visitor
135 UK golf club member (16% discount)

Monifieth Medal (peak season):
125 visitor
95 Scottish golf club member (24% discount)

Montrose (peak season):
140 visitor
70 Scottish Golf Union member (50% discount)

Carnoustie, Arbroath, Scotscraig, Elie, and many others do still have just one visitor rate.

I was at an English club recently which is considering adding a non UK fee for visitors. This would be the first in England that I encountered. The concept is spreading in Scotland.

Ciao

It's happening already this year Sean.


Ganton -

GB&I - £195
International - £250

On the website it says GB&I need to be a member of a club but when I called up they said that wasn't the case.

In 2020 it was £140 for everyone

Alwoodley -

GB&I - £190
International - £225.

In 2020 it was £125 for everyone.

These increases are significantly above inflation.

[Niall C]

Thanks David, I'm very glad I took the opportunity to play Alwoodley and Ganton when I did as they are now way above what I'd be willing to pay.


Niall

[David Jones]

Thanks David, I'm very glad I took the opportunity to play Alwoodley and Ganton when I did as they are now way above what I'd be willing to pay.


Niall

Indeed. It's the case at so many places. I'm just finishing up some research of the 2024 increases at the top 100 courses in the UK which I do every year and it's sobering reading...

[Niall C]

David


The buzz word for the last few years has been sustainable. I wonder how sustainable some of these greenfees are in the mid to long term, particularly as the pent up demand caused by COVID subsides; the possibility of the pound gaining on the dollar; and a continued reduction in inflation ?


Niall

[David Jones]

David


The buzz word for the last few years has been sustainable. I wonder how sustainable some of these greenfees are in the mid to long term, particularly as the pent up demand caused by COVID subsides; the possibility of the pound gaining on the dollar; and a continued reduction in inflation ?


Niall

Niall,

Demand is so high still, mainly from the US. The Covid backlog has washed through now pretty much but there is an attitude of not putting off that trip of a lifetime.

There are a dozen or so clubs which were sold out for this summer well before the end of last year. These tend to be the highly ranked members' clubs in Ireland and Scotland. They are able to do pretty much whatever they like on green fees it seems. I have seen some of their 2025 rates already and it just keeps going. Several are now reducing the number of visitor times available as they don't need any more revenue so are keeping more times for members.

But, there are signs that some outside of this group who aren't finding it so easy. Interestingly there are a couple of English clubs who pushed up prices a lot and they are actually down on visitor numbers versus where they normally are for this time of year.

There is definitely an attitude though that some clubs are happy to price out the domestic market in order to have sometimes fewer, but higher, green fees coming from the international market.

I'm currently writing a blog piece on the consequences (some unintended) of all of this. It's not insignificant.

Cheers,
David

[Thomas Dai]

Notable how the 4 golfing parts of GB&NI do not do each other any favours when it comes to visitors from others of the 4 paying a greenfee. Also how winter greenfees no longer exist at many clubs and how the pricing basis and number of entries in club open comp have risen.
Changed days.

atb

[Richard Fisher]

It's also worth flagging how much visitors now expect for their elevated fees, above and beyond the golf course itself, including a level of clubhouse and daylong F&B coverage that would have been unthinkable twenty years ago.
Anybody who has ever looked at the unmonitored Facebook or similar comments on links courses will see unfavourable comments from visitors that will make members of this site squirm (course 'far too brown and fast' and 'very unreceptive greens' etc etc) and conditioning is, rightly or wrongly, always an issue, upon which almost all Top 100-ish UK courses are spending rather more than they once did, even allowing for inflation.
Quite a lot of Top 100 courses still do offer 'Winter Green Fees' but these are probably what TD was used to paying as the Summer Rate 
Still a bit shocked though by what some of the great Yorkshire courses are proposing to charge this year, but doubtless the marginal returns will work in their favour...

[Adrian_Stiff]

An international rate is a pretty low trick I think.


In the UK we have county card rates for members of clubs but many of the top 100 don't allow this because basically almost everyone at the top courses would have one.

[Michael Morandi]

I didn't want to thread hijack Sean's Scotland price gouging thread as this is broader. First, it is great that the model in the UK is very welcoming to visitors. Second, yes it has gotten quite expensive, but supply and demand, if you can't afford it stay home.
So I have some lists below sorted by:

• Country
• Course by Top100golfcourses country ranking (not best, but easiest to use)
• I have the top 50 in that list for UK & Ireland listed
• Local currency is first column with US dollars conversion (1.27 for pounds and 1.09 for euro) in the second column
• The price is for listed for 1 visitor green fee for peak summer 2024, midweek if cheaper.
• This is green fee only, not inclusive of any other caddie/buggie fees
• Sunningdale is $762 for both, Muirfield is $667 for 2 rounds/lunch
• Several courses don't have listed fees (Royal Aberdeen technical issue), several are private (Loch Lomond, Swinley Forest, Wentworth), some you have to inquire (Ardfin, Rye, Royal West Norfolk).  If anyone has definitive 2024 visitor prices let me know.

• For the 17 England courses with prices it would cost $5,232 or $308 per round. Assuming Sunningdale 36 day promo rate
• For the 16 Scotland courses with prices it would cost $6,118 or $382 per round.
• For the 7 Ireland courses with prices it would cost $2,262 or $323 per round.
• For the 2 N. Ireland courses with prices it would cost $889 or $445 per round.
• For the 1 Wales course listed it would cost $279 per round.
• For the 43 courses listed it would cost $14,780 or $344 per round.
• We can maybe do this list again in 2025 and we have a running total to refer to.

England

Course	pounds	dollars
Royal St. Georges-1	330	419
Sunningdale-2/5	600	762
Royal Birkdale-3	340	432
Swinley Forest-4	not listed	xxx
Woodhall Spa-6	225	286
Royal Lytham-7	320	406
Ganton-8	195	248
St. Georges Hill-9	255	324
St. Endoc-10	150	191
Royal C Ports-11	235	298
West Sussex-12	150	191
Alwoodley-13	225	286
Walton Heath-14	260	330
Royal Liverpool-15	310	394
Royal W. Norfolk-16	not listed	xxx
Rye -17	not listed	xxx
Silloth on Solway-18	95	121
Hollinwell-19	190	241
Wentworth-20	not listed	xxx
Berkshire-21	240	305

Scotland

Course	pounds	dollars
St. Andrews Old-1	320	406
Trump Turnberry-2	495	629
Muirfield-3	340	432
Royal Dornoch-4	280	356
North Berwick-5	240	305
Carnoustie-6	300	381
Kingsbarns-7	418	531
Castle Stuart-8	295	375
Royal Aberdeen-9	not listed	xxx
Trump International-10	400	508
Cruden Bay-11	175	222
Ardfin-12	not sure	xxx
Royal Troon-13	340	432
Prestwick-14	270	343
Loch Lomond-15	not listed	xxx
Gleneagles-16	280	356
Dumbarnie-17	299	380
Western Gailes-18	245	311
Machrahanish-19	120	152

Ireland

Course	euros	dollars
Ballybunion-1	350	382
Lahinch-2	325	354
St. Patricks-3	240	262
Portmarnock-4	325	354
European Club-5	290	316
Waterville-6	300	327
The Island-7	270	294

Northern Ireland

Course	pounds	dollars
RC Down-1	360	457
Royal Portrush-2	340	432

Wales

Course	pounds	dollars
Royal Porthcawl	220	279

Thanks for doing this, Jeff. I wasn’t tempted to play Trump courses to begin with, but now I won’t even think of them.

[Sean_A]

In GB&I a "visitor" is someone who is not a member and not playing with a member (that'd be a guest).  Locals play local courses, too.

This is not entirely accurate.  Quite a few courses have two categories of visitor.  I have several potential itineraries "in the works" and have seen some version of this in Scotland, England, and Ireland.  A few examples from Scotland:

Lundin (peak season):
150 visitor
120 UK resident (20% discount)

Panmure (peak season):
160 visitor
135 UK golf club member (16% discount)

Monifieth Medal (peak season):
125 visitor
95 Scottish golf club member (24% discount)

Montrose (peak season):
140 visitor
70 Scottish Golf Union member (50% discount)

Carnoustie, Arbroath, Scotscraig, Elie, and many others do still have just one visitor rate.

I was at an English club recently which is considering adding a non UK fee for visitors. This would be the first in England that I encountered. The concept is spreading in Scotland.

Ciao

It's happening already this year Sean.


Ganton -

GB&I - £195
International - £250

On the website it says GB&I need to be a member of a club but when I called up they said that wasn't the case.

In 2020 it was £140 for everyone

Alwoodley -

GB&I - £190
International - £225.

In 2020 it was £125 for everyone.

These increases are significantly above inflation.

Yep, it’s disappointing, but for me most of the big guns jumped the shark long ago. There aren’t many left I would consider good value.

The club I have in mind is nowhere near the stature of Alwoodley and Ganton.

Ciao

[Mike Feeney]

Alas, gone are golf's greatest values. My old age is showing, I suppose, but this is giving me a serious case of Bucket List Shrinkage. Beyond dishing-out the cash, hate the feeling of being chiseled…one visiting foursome’s green fees more than, or equal to, a local’s annual dues. I know. I know. I know -- supply & demand.  Suppose it makes Bandon Dunes pricing, slightly, less insane.

[John Handley]

I am dealing with many clients who are booking golf trips to GB&I, US, and Mexico.  Not one person has complained about the pricing.  Now, granted, most of my clients are pretty wealthy but it does show that there is plenty of demand.  And by the way, it's not just green fees, it's hotel rooms too.


That said, I do think there is going to be a point where the big increases year over year slow down.  Probably the same with golf club invitation fees which I would argue are probably at an all-time high. 


But with the stock market run up over the past 20 years, apparently lots of guys in their 50s - 70s are flush with cash.

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