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Brian_Ewen

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Golf World Top 100: Best Sustainable Golf Courses in Europe
« on: January 05, 2024, 02:39:39 AM »
Golf World Top 100: Best Sustainable Golf Courses in Europe

https://www.todays-golfer.com/courses/best/eco-friendly-golf-courses/

Matt Schoolfield

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Re: Golf World Top 100: Best Sustainable Golf Courses in Europe
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2024, 04:08:47 AM »
I'm extremely pleased that this has happened, and I'd commend the folks at Golf World for putting the list together. I wanted to write a lot about what I like and what I don't about it (making bread on site to "reduce carbon emissions" gets a hard eye-roll from me), but I don't think that would be particularly helpful for this venue.

Even if there is some blatant green-washing peppered in, it's a nice change from the normal, polite-and-passive discourse that happens in golf media. I'm thinking specifically about the recent interview on the Fried Egg Golf podcast kind of awkwardly discussing New Jersey's banning of pesticides that we know are harming wildlife. I think they handled it well, and I understand that golf media outlets typically don't have editors with serious backgrounds in environmentalism, but given the environmental conflicts that golf somehow regularly has, I obviously think it would be prudent going forward.

Again, many kudos to Golf World here. I do have some notes, but it's a tough subject for much of the golf world, and it makes me happy to see a publication put something forward like this in good faith.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2024, 04:41:35 AM by Matt Schoolfield »

Adam Lawrence

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Re: Golf World Top 100: Best Sustainable Golf Courses in Europe
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2024, 04:49:00 AM »
Chris Bertram is really earning his money  :)
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf World Top 100: Best Sustainable Golf Courses in Europe
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2024, 09:12:26 AM »
Nice to see something like this put together.
Can’t help but feel somewhat cynical about it however, in that many of the programmes adopted by the various courses named seem more akin to ticking brownie point box exercises to get the envo’s etc etc onside by following guidelines published by quangos with the offer of grants and subsidies on the table for doing so.
No bad thing perhaps, although maybe a little disingenuous, for I note that hardly any of the courses highlighted undertake just about the most basic element of maintenance required by the game, ie cutting the grass, by using four legged, fertiliser producing grazing animals, which naturally produce a delightful height of cut (nibble) for playing golf and do so without needing oil based or technologically gathered electric power to do so.
Happy New Year.
Atb

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Golf World Top 100: Best Sustainable Golf Courses in Europe
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2024, 11:41:17 AM »
This is a great idea, but I'd rather read an article focusing on the courses that are really embracing it, instead a ranking that struggles to find 100 courses with a reason.  One course is listed for switching to eco bunker [lots of courses have done so], while another is listed for making their own bread in house?


The Golf Environment Organization is a great group, and they are not "greenwashing" in any way . . . kudos to them for pointing out the occasional bad example to move things forward.

Bernie Bell

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Re: Golf World Top 100: Best Sustainable Golf Courses in Europe
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2024, 01:04:41 PM »
The frailty of most of these analyses IMO is the focus on golf maintenance rather than golf construction and renovation.  Tens of thousands of truckloads of material in and out have a far greater impact than many of the superficial things they measure. 

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf World Top 100: Best Sustainable Golf Courses in Europe
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2024, 01:55:01 PM »
The frailty of most of these analyses IMO is the focus on golf maintenance rather than golf construction and renovation.  Tens of thousands of truckloads of material in and out have a far greater impact than many of the superficial things they measure.


But every golf course does maintenance. Only a tiny number are doing large scale construction.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Mike Wagner

  • Karma: +0/-0

Charlie Goerges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf World Top 100: Best Sustainable Golf Courses in Europe
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2024, 03:44:37 PM »
Golf World Top 100: Best Sustainable Golf Courses in Europe

https://www.todays-golfer.com/courses/best/eco-friendly-golf-courses/


What a load ..




If you don't like the article, why don't you tell us why? As it is, this statement is utterly useless.
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Mike Wagner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf World Top 100: Best Sustainable Golf Courses in Europe
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2024, 11:10:30 AM »
Golf World Top 100: Best Sustainable Golf Courses in Europe

https://www.todays-golfer.com/courses/best/eco-friendly-golf-courses/


What a load ..




If you don't like the article, why don't you tell us why? As it is, this statement is utterly useless.


Sorry, I was thinking what a load of a burden it is to make this article and to qualify for the standard it takes. I'm going to make my own bread today.

Matt Schoolfield

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf World Top 100: Best Sustainable Golf Courses in Europe
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2024, 06:54:48 PM »
Sorry, I was thinking what a load of a burden it is to make this article and to qualify for the standard it takes. I'm going to make my own bread today.
I guess I just wouldn't want to let perfect be the enemy of good here. Going through this list definitely had my rolling my eyes more than a few times. As a first draft that welcomes criticism in the text, I think it's a decent effort by someone who clearly doesn't have a background in environmental policy. Iron sharpens iron, and I emailed a balanced response. I'm honestly just glad to see reducing environmental impact framed as something important here, instead of the typical framing where it's some kind of regulatory nuisance.

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf World Top 100: Best Sustainable Golf Courses in Europe
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2024, 04:44:36 AM »
I liked scrolling through the list as a way to see what from that list I think are good ones. I liked the honey bee idea as at least in the USA we need more. Some read like PR soundbites.


As golf is seen typically as the enemy of the environment, this is progress to get the conversation going in another direction.  Of course there are large capital costs for some of the power ideas like geothermal, less so solar.  I was surprised there was no mention of wind turbines, unless I missed it.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2024, 01:11:58 PM by Jeff Schley »
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Mike Wagner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf World Top 100: Best Sustainable Golf Courses in Europe
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2024, 09:12:30 AM »
Sorry, I was thinking what a load of a burden it is to make this article and to qualify for the standard it takes. I'm going to make my own bread today.
I guess I just wouldn't want to let perfect be the enemy of good here. Going through this list definitely had my rolling my eyes more than a few times. As a first draft that welcomes criticism in the text, I think it's a decent effort by someone who clearly doesn't have a background in environmental policy. Iron sharpens iron, and I emailed a balanced response. I'm honestly just glad to see reducing environmental impact framed as something important here, instead of the typical framing where it's some kind of regulatory nuisance.


This makes me think of something .. can you think of anyone who isn't good or at least now tries to make moves in the right direction? Maybe it should have been a worst offenders list. I'd love to see what "perfect" looks like and who defines it.

Matt Schoolfield

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf World Top 100: Best Sustainable Golf Courses in Europe New
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2024, 03:09:04 PM »
can you think of anyone who isn't good or at least now tries to make moves in the right direction?
Yes, much if not most of golf culture. That's the problem.

You have the insanely wasteful practice of overseeding dormant bermuda with rye, even though dormant bermuda is a better playing surface, simply because some fancy pants people might have to deign to play off of yellowish-brown turf for half a season... never mind that the oldest courses in Scotland aren't exactly verdant in the high season. We are literally overseeding courses operating on precious Colorado river water... it's pretty nuts. The fact that the C&C Pinehurst restoration was even mildly controversial is a testament that the augustification of golf is a rampant cultural problem.

We also have a culture of faster-is-better green speeds, which means we have to dump a bunch of poison on grass that can barely survive just so we can run or greens at speed literally double what they were designed for. Lord knows, we've been permanently flattening our most iconic greens just so this stupid fashion of keeping up with the Oakmonts can continue. I mean, we already butchered the Eden green, I can't wait to see what we do with 16 at Pasatiempo. /s

The general point is that most of the clubs want to flex on being manicured, and our access culture prevents most people actually saying anything about it. I get it, that most people want to focus on perfect playing conditions even if it means trying to force a piece of land to be something that it's not... even if we'll rip it up 50 years later just to restore it to an earlier state when these fashions change.

We don't need to run diesel guzzling mowers every day, we just want to because it's prettier. We don't need to use insecticides we know are contributing to major fauna population collapses, we just want to because it's prettier. And worst of all, nobody is going to say shit about the horrible stewardship that these fancy pants places represent and perpetuate, because nobody wants to get blacklisted. A worst offenders list is almost laughable, because it would probably include many of the courses that people here herald as "golf as it was meant to be played."

It's so bad I regularly joke to folks, after they complain about Sharp Park's "horrible conditions" that Sharp Park is very probably the most authentic MacKenzie course you can play because it's the only one that hasn't been converted into some ridiculous hundred-acre bowling green. Golf courses could be significant wildlife refuges in urban centers, they could be praised by environmental groups for being the best stewards of urban land. Instead we do ridiculous things like create a fake Audubon Society, that I'm sure everyone here knows is totally independent of the other, much more famous Audubon Society.

I know that things are changing. I know that much of the modern courses are designed with sustainability in mind, but as long as decadent courses like Augusta are sitting on the top of all the lists, and as long as I get complaints about how terrible it is to play at Sharp Park because they actually care about the wildlife, I'll keep insisting golf has a deep cultural problem that prioritizes a pretend environment over our actual environment.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2024, 04:09:12 PM by Matt Schoolfield »

Mike Wagner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf World Top 100: Best Sustainable Golf Courses in Europe
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2024, 10:07:26 PM »
.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2024, 10:41:02 PM by Mike Wagner »

Enno Gerdes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf World Top 100: Best Sustainable Golf Courses in Europe
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2024, 02:45:32 AM »
I appreciate the effort put into the list, and the importance of focussing on sustainability. And my club is on the list, so that's positive  ;) . However...


The list is not much more than a compilation of good practices. That's a worthy exercise, because other clubs can use the list for inspiration, but it's not a "best of" list. Some of the practices that are mentioned for clubs on the list, are pretty much standard. Solar energy: Many, many clubs have solar cells installed, and many more purchase 100% renewable energy externally. No use of pesticides: That's basically the law nowadays. Fully-electric buggies: Is there anything else actually? LED-lights: seriously?


This is not to play down the importance of all of this, on the contrary. Clubs should be held to an even higher standard, banalities shouldn't get you on such a list. Maybe this list just suffers from a click-bait'y title ("top 100: best courses"), when it's really just a good, but a relatively random list of good practices implemented golf clubs all over Europe.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf World Top 100: Best Sustainable Golf Courses in Europe New
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2024, 04:24:20 AM »
can you think of anyone who isn't good or at least now tries to make moves in the right direction?
Yes, much if not most of golf culture. That's the problem.

You have the insanely wasteful practice of overseeding dormant bermuda with rye, even though dormant bermuda is a better playing surface, simply because some fancy pants people might have to deign to play off of yellowish-brown turf for half a season... never mind that the oldest courses in Scotland aren't exactly verdant in the high season. We are literally overseeding courses operating on precious Colorado river water... it's pretty nuts. The fact that the C&C Pinehurst restoration was even mildly controversial is a testament that the agustification of golf is a rampant cultural problem.

We also have a culture of faster-is-better green speeds, which means we have to dump a bunch of poison on grass that can barely survive just so we can run or greens at speed literally double what they were designed for. Lord knows, we've been permanently flattening our most iconic greens just so this stupid fashion of keeping up with the Oakmonts can continue. I mean, we already butchered the Eden green, I can't wait to see what we do with 16 at Pasatiempo. /s

The general point is that most of the clubs want to flex on being manicured, and our access culture prevents most people actually saying anything about it. I get it, that most people want to focus on perfect playing conditions ever if it means trying to force a piece of land to be something that it's not... even if we'll rip it up 50 years later just to restore it to an earlier state when these fashions change.

We don't need to run diesel guzzling mowers every day, we just want to because it's prettier. We don't need to use insecticides we know are contributing to major fauna population collapses, we just want to because it's prettier. And worst of all, nobody is going to say shit about the horrible stewardship that these fancy pants places represent and perpetuate, because nobody wants to get blacklisted. A worst offenders list is almost laughable, because it would probably include many of the courses that people here herald as "golf as it was meant to be played."

It's so bad I regularly joke to folks, after they complain about Sharp Park's "horrible conditions" that Sharp Park is very probably the most authentic MacKenzie course you can play because it's the only one that hasn't been converted into some ridiculous hundred-acre bowling green. Golf courses could be significant wildlife refuges in urban centers, they could be praised by environmental groups for being the best stewards of urban land. Instead we do ridiculous things like create a fake Audubon Society, that I'm sure everyone here knows is totally independent of the other, much more famous Audubon Society.

I know that things are changing. I know that much of the modern courses are designed with sustainability in mind, but as long as decadent courses like Augusta are sitting on the top of all the lists, and as long as I get complaints about how terrible it is to play at Sharp Park because they actually care about the wildlife, I'll keep insisting golf has a deep cultural problem that prioritizes a pretend environment over our actual environment.

Yer not wrong. There is a ton of fat which could be cut as soon as golfers want it to happen.

Any true list of this sort should really be populated with courses few ever knew existed.

Ciao
« Last Edit: January 08, 2024, 06:06:02 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf World Top 100: Best Sustainable Golf Courses in Europe
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2024, 04:44:42 AM »
A lot of good comments and I largely agree with Matt's last post. And while I am generally in favour of what the magazine is trying to achieve I think they are coming at it from the wrong angle. Rather than coming up with a list of clubs/courses that are doing good things it would be better to highlight good practices and citing certain clubs/courses as good case studies. That way there would be no need to pad out a list with clubs that bake their own bread.


Conversely the could also identify bad practice although without necessarily naming names and embarrassing/alienating anyone. I appreciate that publications like this rely on the goodwill of clubs/resorts for a good part of their revenue.


Niall